Net Jets QOL

[1-tacan-rule]

Didn't mean to offend...

Live4:

CP meant co-pilot, not Chief Pilot. Obviously I couldn't be your Chief Pilot if I haven't landed on property yet...but your mistake is understandable since you are run ragged on such a rough schedule .

 

[beechjetpilot1]

You are a tool

Live4:

CP meant co-pilot, not Chief Pilot. Obviously I couldn't be your Chief Pilot if I haven't landed on property yet...but your mistake is understandable since you are run ragged on such a rough schedule .

I hope I NEVER fly with you.....Your attitude is horrid. I have had the displeasure of flying with several SIC's with a know-it-all attitude. If you are lucky enough to "land on property", hopefully you will be respectful of your senior pilots. QOL gets worse with each passing month. Shedules are horrible, pay is low, and you are worked to the point of exhaustion on nearly every tour. Slow down with the calling people liars and listen to what people tell you. Maybe all week with 14 and 10's is unrealistic, but not that far off. When you count on the hotel shuttle being late, trying to find dinner, ironing your shirt, calling the wife and kids and trying to wind down after a stressfull day, knowing you will be called at 0300 for a "pop-up" trip, you try and get good rest and be in a good mood. Then multiply that by the number of days you are on the road. To add insult to injury, you have to ride in the back of an airline on either end getting sneezed on and coughed on in your middle seat by the guy sitting next to you.

 

[realityman]

Sheesh Beechjet, take a pill! Have a drink. Do some d@&) thing! Tacan's parting comment was obviously tongue-in-cheek (did you miss the smiley at the end?). I hope you are utilizing your vacation time wisely because you seem a little stressed.

And "know-it-all" co-pilots can be corrected simply by showing them what they don't know. But captains who DEMAND respect instead of EARNING it are much harder to deal with. And flying with pilots (captains or co-pilots) with no sense of humor isn't a real treat either. I hope for Tacan's sake, as a new pilot on the premises, that he doesn't fly with you.

We need everyone to work together to forge a better Netjets,and you're tearing down someone who hasn't even started his/her first day with us yet!

And what constitutes a good QOL is very subjective, depending on the individual. I've already pointed out a lot of the GOOD things at NJA which makes for a nice QOL. Can it be better? YES!!!! Will I fight alongside my fellow pilots to make it better? YES!!!! But it's not all bad, and Tacan will have to form his/her own opinion about the NJA QOL works for him.

 

[been-there]

The days can be long, but are never more than 14 hours (assuming you stand up to the company and shut it down at that point). We stay in very nice places most of the time (except when the best hotels truly aren't available, which is rare). We keep our hotel points and airline miles. Crew food is plentiful and of good quality (never heard anyone ever complain of losing weight after starting work with us!). We are REQUIRED to have 10 hours of rest, and if you find your rest being shorted due to late hotel vans, poor check-in procedures, noisy hotel guests, whatever, then you have the option of telling (not asking) the company to give you additional rest. You cannot be extended on the 7/7 schedule, can only be extended once a month for one day on the 17-day schedule, and can generally count on being home after 7 days max on the flex schedule (not to mention having 3 schedules to choose from!).

OK Dude, whatever you have to tell yourself that NetJets doesn't suck is up to you. But the above list is pretty pathetic. You forgot to mention all the celebs you meet.

For the new guys. Remember that lifers will not admit their job sucks. NetJets sucks. It will need more than BB to make it a good place. It really needs a management change in New Jersey.

 

[realityman]

Okay Been-There. I'd conceed your point except you still haven't really said specifically what sucks at NJA. Heck, I'll start you off: PAY!!!

As for the rest of it, no job is perfect. It's the process that matters. Are we trying to improve it or just accepting the status quo? I'm trying to improve it. But I'd love to hear what you would do to make this a better place. So far all you've done is complain that it sucks without really getting into specifics. At least I listed some areas where it's pretty good.

I might add how many of the airline guys (and girls) who make very good $$$ will still bitch and complain that they hate the job. I've flown with many of them who had nothing but bad things to say about their former airline employers (retired guys included, not just the bitter furloughed ones) even though they made good coin. Money certainly makes the homelife nice, but apparently doesn't necessarily make a crummy job more palatable.

And you make it sound bad to be a "lifer" at NJA. Personally, moving from job to job constantly in search of that "perfect" job is tiring and difficult. I've tried it. Now I think I'll be a "lifer" and work to make things better at NJA. You gotta take a stand sometime.

But everyone has their own opinion of how life is for them at NJA. If you're really that miserable, then I truly do wish you luck in finding something better, or at least something you'll be happier at. Life's too short to spend so much of it being unhappy!

 

[been-there]

Realtyman, let me apologize. I am sorry for slamming you. You seem like a level headed guy. With the anonymous nature of this board sometimes I write things that are not in the best of taste.

Back to NetJets. There are better jobs and there are worse jobs. I am thankful to be employed by them. Now, on to the minuses:

1.Pay. It is comparable to the regionals.
2.Training. We do a lot, but most of it is worthless.
3.Line Flying. Captains who never swap pax legs, even with co-captains.
4.Local 284.
5.Scheduling.
6.Lack of sleep.
7.Self disclosures.
8.Training Contract.
9.5 year FO pay scale.
10. Airlining.
11. The total CYA mentality on the road.

 

[On Your Six]

Realtyman, let me apologize. I am sorry for slamming you. You seem like a level headed guy. With the anonymous nature of this board sometimes I write things that are not in the best of taste.

Back to NetJets. There are better jobs and there are worse jobs. I am thankful to be employed by them. Now, on to the minuses:

1.Pay. It is comparable to the regionals.
2.Training. We do a lot, but most of it is worthless.
3.Line Flying. Captains who never swap pax legs, even with co-captains.
4.Local 284.
5.Scheduling.
6.Lack of sleep.
7.Self disclosures.
8.Training Contract.
9.5 year FO pay scale.
10. Airlining.
11. The total CYA mentality on the road.

I seriously hope you have your applications out to AirTran, AWA, SWA, JetBlue, Fedex, UPS and the others that seem to be hiring (for now at least) because life is TOO SHORT to be so unhappy...

With regard to pay, never expect it to be that good again unless you get to Fedex or UPS. If you go to JetBlue, you might start on the E190 in a few months time and get paid $29 per hour as an FO - not so great... Fifth year Captain on the E190 at JetBlue pays $77 per hour. Don't expect other starting positions at most of the airlines to be so great in terms of pay either. The glory days are over.

Hopefully with an improved contract and maybe some management changes at NJA, both pay and QOL will improve (pay certainly must improve big time). Good luck.

 

[1-tacan-rule]

Beech....ouch!

First, allow me to respond to your comments, sir, oh holy Capt, my god of gods (or however else you would like me to address you PIC sir):

I hope I NEVER fly with you.....Your attitude is horrid. I have had the displeasure of flying with several SIC's with a know-it-all attitude If by "know it all attitudes" you mean someone who won't let you (the Capt) KILL THEM by not knowing when to tell the boss you had enough...."must rest," the belive me, I hope I don't ever fly with you either . If you are lucky enough Why would you say that I am "lucky enough" to land on property when you then biatchh ad-nauseum about how much it suxxss. to "land on property", hopefully you will be respectful of your senior pilots. QOL gets worse with each passing month. Shedules are horrible, pay is low, and you are worked to the point of exhaustion on nearly every tour. Slow down with the calling people liars Read the post, I gave Live4 the option of admitting he was a liar, a company man, or someone who doesn't know his limits...I didn't call him a liar. and listen to what people tell you I have: and 90% of the people I know or have met face to face totally contradict the gloom/doom/sweatshop experience that some of these people (and you ) have been spewing. Maybe all week with 14 and 10's is unrealistic, but not that far off. When you count on the hotel shuttle being late,Whaaa! trying to find dinner,Whaa! ironing your shirt,Whaa!! calling the wifeWha!! and kids Wha!!!and trying to wind down after a stressfull day,Whass!! knowing you will be called at 0300 for a "pop-up" trip,Okay, ready for this: my BEST friend who is an Ultra Capt told me that in five years this has happened to him less than 10 TIMES!! you try and get good rest and be in a good mood. Then multiply that by the number of days you are on the road. wha!! look at the numbers. Unless you are working corporate where you do alot of out and ins, you will always be gone about half the month: JB, Airtran, United,etc. To add insult to injury, you have to ride in the back of an airline on either end getting sneezed on and coughed on in your middle seat by the guy sitting next to you.which you would have to do ON YOUR OWN time if yo commute to your airline job which statistics shows are MOST airline pilots.

Listen, my comment from my last post was meant as a joke. Please don't be hatin'. I chose to work for NJ mainly based on the input from my friends which is totally contrary to the BS you are putting out.

An old airline pilot once told me that if pilots had to go to work one day a month, and that was just to pick up their checks....they'd complain about the traffic. NOW, I see what he meant.

 

[njwingman]

In over 6 years, I have never broken 450 hours of flying in a year.

In over 6 years, I have, several times.

 

[dime line]

1-tacan-rule......from you previous post you really sound like the cream of the crop in the military, a real yes sir kinda guy. You will learn how it is here in the Fractionals, best friend or not you will get called at 3am, you will fly more than 500hrs per year, and you will be a copilot for at least 5 years at the lovely copilot pay. So enjoy.

 

[1-tacan-rule]

To Dime Lime:

Since you claim your "Current Position" is "Chump" I will consider your opinions accordingly.

Excuse me but G-damitt why don't you guys who do nothing but biatchh about NJ just drop your nutts and go somewhere else?

Say what you want about my comments regarding my friends' experiences with your company, but I certainly hold their opinions/comments in much higher regard than the few of you whining ladies who linger on these boards.

 

[Ty Webb]

After JB and SWA, I'd like to hear about any other companies (aviation) that treat you as well as NJA does.

I occaisionally like to check in over here to see what has been going on at NetJets. I had an interview scheduled at EJA when I started at Airtran just after 9/11, so I was following the company with interest before then and still do now.

You said you'd like an airline comparison- I can only speak for my experience at Airtran, but I can tell you that AirTran treats us pretty well . . . . . I was getting 14 days off per month the first year, 15-17 off with most weekends off during the second year, and the third year, well, I almost felt guilty taking their money, I was there so little. . . . . I was able to upgrade to 737NG Capt right at the three-year mark. It looks like the upgrade time will decrease a little this year, maybe as low as 2.5 years to make Capt, so there is good movement.

As for scheduling, the Company can schedule us for a maximum 12 hour duty day, but most days are more like 7-10 hours duty, and we average about 5.5 hours of flying per day, but could be scheduled for a max of 8. . . . anything more than 6 is pretty rare. The beauty of it is that you already knew what this day consisted of a couple of weeks ago when you bid for it, so a lazy guy can bid low-time lines, and a go-getter can go get.

If they cancel a flight, or if you have more than 5 hours waiting time for any reason, they have to put you up in a hotel . . . . not just keep you waiting around the airport.

Downside is going in and out of the same 40-something airports over and over, getting "contract" hotel rooms, and having to deal with the gate, scheduling, dispatch, Operations, flight attendents, etc. . . etc . . . etc. . . . Amazingly enough, a pax from south Boston riding on an $89. ticket will bitch more than a CEO on a $35,000. charter, believe it or not.

Good luck on your contract. We are ramping up for negotiations, too.

 

[gunfyter]

In over 6 years, I have, several times.

over 700 my first year and about 600 last year. But I have 3 vacations this yr and 5 weeks of workers comp so will not be too high this yr. lowest yr (2003) was 360... very slow yr.

 

[On Your Six]

I occaisionally like to check in over here to see what has been going on at NetJets. I had an interview scheduled at EJA when I started at Airtran just after 9/11, so I was following the company with interest before then and still do now.

You said you'd like an airline comparison- I can only speak for my experience at Airtran, but I can tell you that AirTran treats us pretty well . . . . . I was getting 14 days off per month the first year, 15-17 off with most weekends off during the second year, and the third year, well, I almost felt guilty taking their money, I was there so little. . . . . I was able to upgrade to 737NG Capt right at the three-year mark. It looks like the upgrade time will decrease a little this year, maybe as low as 2.5 years to make Capt, so there is good movement.

As for scheduling, the Company can schedule us for a maximum 12 hour duty day, but most days are more like 7-10 hours duty, and we average about 5.5 hours of flying per day, but could be scheduled for a max of 8. . . . anything more than 6 is pretty rare. The beauty of it is that you already knew what this day consisted of a couple of weeks ago when you bid for it, so a lazy guy can bid low-time lines, and a go-getter can go get.

If they cancel a flight, or if you have more than 5 hours waiting time for any reason, they have to put you up in a hotel . . . . not just keep you waiting around the airport.

Downside is going in and out of the same 40-something airports over and over, getting "contract" hotel rooms, and having to deal with the gate, scheduling, dispatch, Operations, flight attendents, etc. . . etc . . . etc. . . . Amazingly enough, a pax from south Boston riding on an $89. ticket will bitch more than a CEO on a $35,000. charter, believe it or not.

Good luck on your contract. We are ramping up for negotiations, too.

I'm sold! Sign me up... How's the 737NG treating you? Do you miss the 717 yet?

 

[Ty Webb]

I liked the 717 just fine, but the 737 is a more well-mannered airplane. I am sure I would like a Gulfstream, or a Falcon, or the Citation X too.

This time of year I miss those ski trips, island trips, etc. Even miss the ol' Teterboro on occaision, or at least the catering from Rudy's . . . . remember, if you want the shrimp cocktail, ya have to ask for the "deluxe" executive lunch.