Negatives to JetBlue?

[potrack]

There are good and bad things everywhere.

I've heard a lot of good things about JetBlue,

How about some of the stuff people don't like?

 

[CatfishVT9]

I don't like that they haven't called me for an interview yet!!!

Catfish

 

[colorado418]

There are good and bad things everywhere.

I've heard a lot of good things about JetBlue,

How about some of the stuff people don't like?

How about that folks don't have anything better to do than try to dig up dirt. This post is just like a USA Today article that some schmuck wrote. He found DOT complaints and wrote the whole article about the complaints listed. Let's try to be original...

 

[CosmoKramer]

Those blue shirts show your underarm sweat more than the white ones.

 

[FLB717]

Catfish,

Didn't you interview at AirTran, how did it go, hear anything yet?

 

[yaks]

Why not answer the mans question as it is a legitimate one. Tell him about the employment contract for crappy pay and no chance to have a union to stand up to management buffoonery when it happens (and it will happen). Tell him about the movement to trash the FAR flight time limitations so you can fall asleep at the wheel to make a few extra bucks. There is much to be ashamed of at many airlines but most people are up front about it.

 

[J32driver]

Employment contract?

Please explain.

 

[TBF]

Those blue shirts show your underarm sweat more than the white ones.

Yes, but they do hide coffee stains!

Yaks, I sell (sniff, sniff) grapes (sniff, sniff) yeah thats it......sour grapes!

 

[Skank]

No chance for ALPA here, I'm crushed Yaks (may I suggest avoiding those beer bongs and that yaking should clear right up).

 

[IB6 UB9]

"Why not answer the mans question as it is a legitimate one. Tell him about the employment contract for crappy pay and no chance to have a union to stand up to management buffoonery when it happens (and it will happen). Tell him about the movement to trash the FAR flight time limitations so you can fall asleep at the wheel to make a few extra bucks. There is much to be ashamed of at many airlines but most people are up front about it."


Not another (yawn) JB hater and naysayer trying not so desparately to hold his emotions in check. You are right though...it totally sucks over here...I am part of an organized group of non-professionals trying without a doubt to bring down the industry by lowering wages, changing FAR's, etc. Can't wait to send us into bankruptcy so I can move on to another carrier and start the whole thing over again. What was the "legitimate" question again? In all honesty and not to be accused of drowning in Bluelaid, the place is not perfect, but it is very good. Wages and benefits rank right up there with any other 4 yr carrier, but you've heard it all before. As far as what is wrong with the airline...from a pilot's standpoint...not much to say on that. Commuting to JFK sucks. The airtrain sucks. The weather sucks. Could be a lot worse...in fact...it was...judging from the amount of furloughed guys here. When the majors start recalling I guess you could guage it by how many leave here to return to their old company. How does that go again..."Time will tell!"

 

[pipejockey]

The only problem I have with JB or any of the LCC's is this. Ever since I was a youngster, I knew I was going to be an Airline pilot flying heavy iron internationally. But because of the downward pressure the LCC's have put on prices and wages, that dream is now just a pipedream. It will never happen. The growth in the furture will be narrowbody domestic. The legacy carriers will not be growing much and thereby limiting ones ability to reach a widebody and fly international. Wages will never be similiar to pre 9/11 United, or current Delta. Deltas contract will be pillaged soon.

It's like the old story about the "mom and pop" hardware store. They always had a good business and plenty of customers and revenue. But then the Home depot moved to town and everybody flocked there for the lower prices. Its not like the people were not willing to pay "mom and pops" prices, but when cheaper came, they went!!

Anyway, this is just my little story of shattered boyhood dreams and the disapointment I have in what the future is going to offer me. I guess the bottom line is that I'd rather fly for a living with JB, SWA, AirTran or even a Regional if thats as far as I get, than not to fly at all.
BTW, there is an article on JB in the May issue of Fast Company.

 

[juan2go]

Sorry to hear about your shattered boyhood dream.

Wait, I just heard that World is hiring! Now you can live the dream! Go fly that heavy!

I love a happy ending.

 

[canyonblue]

Anyway, this is just my little story of shattered boyhood dreams and the disapointment I have in what the future is going to offer me.

Change careers before you get to far then. You will never be happy in aviation. BTW it is not the simple Home Depot analogy you profess to hang dear to, but rather a J C Penneys vs Target story. People used to shop at Penneys but before long they found some of the same items at Target and at a better price. The staff at Penneys seemed miffed when you asked them a question whereas the Target staff was attentive and helpful. With market share going away Penneys tried reinventing themselves as the hipper new place to shop. People didn't buy it and continued to shop at Target. Meanwhile the industry saw the downfall of Montgomery Wards and the bankruptcy of KMart. The workers in retail should heed the warnings of the past and not forget that people always vote with their feet. 75% off of crap, is still crap. It is not always about price, sometimes it is just about meeting expectations. The ones that do it the best will be there along time, fail, and you're looking at a new job.

 

[potrack]

So what are some of the drawbacks working for JetBlue?

I guess low pay, no union, bad work rules, the usual things that people don't like about everyone....right?

 

[pipejockey]

Any reason for the sarcasm? I was simply giving an honest answer to the thread starters question. I guess I should have stated the "dream" was a legacy carrier. Not Atlas, World, Polar etc.

But like I said, I would rather fly than do anything else. Its just very disappointing to spend an inordinate amount of money on your formal education and flight training, and just when your done with it, the career you were expecting vanishes into thin air.

If LCC's are your thing, great! Why is it so hard for some people to accept the fact that some pilots may not strive to fly for a LCC. To each his own! I would venture to guess that 90% of the pilots out there would take a job with UA, AA, DL, over JB, SWA, AirTran if given the choice prior to 9/11.

 

[potrack]

Pipejockey,

I agree with your last post

 

[dlredline]

Why not answer the mans question as it is a legitimate one. Tell him about the employment contract for crappy pay and no chance to have a union to stand up to management buffoonery when it happens (and it will happen). Tell him about the movement to trash the FAR flight time limitations so you can fall asleep at the wheel to make a few extra bucks. There is much to be ashamed of at many airlines but most people are up front about it.

Yaaawn . . . I'm sorry, yaks, were you talking? I couldn't hear, too busy doing my part to lower the profession. Gotta get back to it . . .

 

[pipejockey]

Pipejockey,

I agree with your last post

Thanks potrack.

Canyonblue,
I like your quote! It describes me in a way. I feel I did have one shot, one oppurtunity to seize everything I ever wanted. It was in the year 2000 I decided to go all out and capture it! I didn't want to let it slip. But as I finished my training the career I had my sights on vanished. I hope you can at least understand why I am jaded, even if you don't agree. And as far as finding another career, like I said, I would rather fly a regional until 60 than do anything else. Its just not what I had expected. I'll make it work though.

 

[juan2go]

pipejockey,

I apologize. Your honesty is appreciated.

juan

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

I interviewed at UAL and AMR, I also had an interview lined up for NWA-- I got hired by AMR in May 2001, elected not to join the 400+ pool at UAL and not to attend the NWA interview... I took a long, hard look at JBLU and was quite impressed. Now, 3 years later I count my lucky stars. The company is not perfect, far from it, but you know what, I enjoy going to work and the people here are great! Sometimes, that's just worth more than what appears in your paycheck.

 

[SMMustang]

pipe,

Look into flying trash haulers. Fedex & UPS will always be flying int'l. Also, someone has to fly pax int'l so someone will be flying heavy metal. Don't give up on that dream!

I've flown domestic A320s and 747 (cargo and pax) across the Pacific, and for me personally, the best schedule and QOL came with flying cargo out of ANC.

Blue Bayou,

That is me except the exact opposite. Once I got my NWA slot I couldn't get excited about any other interview. Glad to hear your happy with my company. Proud owner of JB stock.

 

[Tycer]

Pipejockey, I know how frustrating things are right now and that "dream" of flying heavy iron around the world seems so very far away. Think of it this way..... when my grandfather started with TWA in 1935 they were a "regional" airline flying dc-3's throughout the States. He retired on the 747 in 1970 completing an around the world trip. My father was with the original Piedmont. Same scenario smaller equipment around the US at first. He retired on the Airbus 321 coming back from Mexico. My brother inlaw started with United when the best route they had was Hawaii, never thinking that he would fly internationally he currently is on the Bus and most of his stuff is long haul over water. This is not a resume of my aviation heritage, but rather a little reminder that things do and will change. The dream of yours is not a pipedream. There will be many opportunities in the future and if you keep that dream alive you will eventually accomplish it. Good Luck

 

[Mooseflyer]

Ever since I was a youngster, I knew I was going to be an Airline pilot flying heavy iron internationally.

I used to have that same dream - now all I dream about is flying domestically...

 

[Dizel8]

"The only problem I have with JB or any of the LCC's is this. Ever since I was a youngster, I knew I was going to be an Airline pilot flying heavy iron internationally. But because of the downward pressure the LCC's have put on prices and wages, that dream is now just a pipedream. It will never happen. The growth in the furture will be narrowbody domestic. The legacy carriers will not be growing much and thereby limiting ones ability to reach a widebody and fly international."

Well, I am not sure I follow your logic. Are you sad about wages or sad about flying heavies int'l?

As far as wages are concerned, they will probably come back over time, after all, once upon a time there were B-scales, they have since disappeared. I have said it before, but I am sorry, jetBlue has 55 airplanes, as a matter of fact, if you take all the LCC's including SWA, combined they have a few airplanes more than AMR. DAL and NWA currently have the highest pay, not including FDX here, yes, there will be some downward pressure on them, but that has a lot more to do with the economy and 9/11 than a couple of LCC's. As a matter of fact, both SWA and ATA are paid higher hourly than AMR, US, UAL etc.

There are no LCC's flying int'l, so how the growth of those have hindered your chances for this flying is beyond me. If anything, that is one area the majors could further venture into, except now they are all part of alliances.

So, do not be discouraged, this business is just like the weather in Michigan: Don't like it now, don't worry, it'll change

 

[Resume Writer]

Change careers before you get to far then. You will never be happy in aviation. BTW it is not the simple Home Depot analogy you profess to hang dear to, but rather a J C Penneys vs Target story. People used to shop at Penneys but before long they found some of the same items at Target and at a better price. The staff at Penneys seemed miffed when you asked them a question whereas the Target staff was attentive and helpful. With market share going away Penneys tried reinventing themselves as the hipper new place to shop. People didn't buy it and continued to shop at Target. Meanwhile the industry saw the downfall of Montgomery Wards and the bankruptcy of KMart. The workers in retail should heed the warnings of the past and not forget that people always vote with their feet. 75% off of crap, is still crap. It is not always about price, sometimes it is just about meeting expectations. The ones that do it the best will be there along time, fail, and you're looking at a new job.

Canyon,

I understand the analogy you are trying to make a point with about J.C. Penney. However, I was a part of the management team for Penney's in 1984 when they did the turnaround. The reaction was really not towards Target at all. A new President stepped in at Penney's in the early 80's and wanted to reinvent the company - not because of marketshare going away, but because he saw what he thought was the future of retail. They were tired of being the socks and underwear retailer. Let me tell you, there was a huge struggle in convincing everyone of this move, because they did have a very good marketshare of the lower end retailers.

So, they started to upgrade their image by being more "fashion forward," in an effort to compete with Dillards, Robinson-May, etc. What they found was that people were not comfortable with their shift in philosophy. They started to lose the market share of the lower end customer, so they put in "value" items, which went back to the lower price points on some items. They believed that they could get both sides of the market.

What caused the biggest challenge for them was getting vendors to buy into their philosophy. They could not get the big names, like Polo, Ralph Lauren, etc., that the big boys had. So, they did knock-offs of items. Let me give you an example.

There are only so many shoe manufacturers in the US. The biggest one is the Brown Shoe Company, which manufactures shoe for all the big companies. Nine West was the biggest shoe seller at that time. J.C. Penney was not able to get the name brand shoes into their stores, so they contracted with them to do the same shoes, with the same specs, but under a private label, which was Sutton Plaza. The same thing happened with Naturalizer Shoes, which J.C. Penney named 9-2-5. After some time, they were able to start getting contracts with larger shoe companies like Nike, but it took some doing.

Further, the company launched a whole "attitude" adjustment of the staff. I have to tell you that their management program was exceptional. They focused on every aspect of customer service, modeling after the Disney philosophy and that of Nordstrom. I believe that I gained my customer service attitude from J.C. Penney and the thorough education they gave me in operations, personnel, marketing, advertising, etc., has enabled me to run my business successfully for 17 years. They also taught me how to read balance sheets and financial statements, perform sales forecasting, salary cost calculations, etc. I got a great education from them and I will be forever grateful.

You use Target as an analogy. But if you look at the trend of Target now, they are trying to distance themselves from Walmart and Kmart. They have put many things into play with new merchandising, better products, etc. They have one thing that J.C. Penney did not. They are part of Dayton-Hudson corporation, which owns Marshall Fields, Mervyns, etc. So, they can attract big name vendors.

Anyway, I just thought I would provide my knowledge of the situation since I was there when it happened. I have no knowledge of what has happened since I left in 1987.

Kathy

 

[Mr.Aviation]

They are a bunch of Koolaid drinking, blue shirt wearing, wanabe punks!!

 

[B6Busdriver]

Mr Aviation,
We seem to really like ourself don't we? How many cocktails did you have before you came up with this well thought out post? Thanks for contributing nothing!

 

[skirt]

They are a bunch of Koolaid drinking, blue shirt wearing, wanabe punks!!

wannabe what????

I have already been where you seem to think Jetblue pilots aspire to be...got the hours, types, uniforms and stripes to prove it.

...sorry buddy, some of us don't aspire to be anywhere but Jetblue. I'm quite happy here, even having flown the major airline widebody international everybody seems to think is the cat's meow.

As others have said, Jetblue is not perfect, but it is the best place to be for those who are here. If you drool over widebody international flying then seek out work elsewhere. There is nothing wrong with seeking out what type of flying and what type of work culture you want. There is a "perfect" airline for everyone. I'm just happy I found the airline that suits me. In general, most of the pilots here feel the same way. That is why you don't hear too many negatives.

Skirt

 

[potrack]

thanks

Skirt,

I think you summed it up when you said, there is nothing wrong with seeking out the type of flying and work culture you want.

There is a style out there for everyone.

Thanks

 

[CSY Mon]

Been sharing crash pads in Queens with quite a few JB pilots.
Also been commuting on JB 20 or 30 times.

Never met an unhappy JB pilot or FA.

Not sure what the big deal is, but short up-grade times seems to be a real plus..
And brand new planes and endless expansion, etc.

Wish them good luck, but at the same time....Don't forget Peoples Express and other airlines that started up, expanded too fast and poof, flew straight into the history books.

As far as flying long haul / international and all that...
Yes, it has its charm, but one gets tired of being tired all the time.
Remember crossing the Atlantic 3 times in 30 hours.

Could not spell my name afterwards..

The perfect trip is about 2 hours now, all in daylight and with minimum radio and paper work.

Perhaps JB is looking pretty good after all....