Need help! (Long post)

[blzr]

Congrats!! you have been given a big challenge (opportunity). Flying the Citation is alot of fun and is a pilots airplane. One thing to consider, flying is just a small part of being a pilot. What if your boss wants to go to Vermont in January, you will have to deal with icing. Not a problem once you get the hang of it, but de-icing is another matter if you are not familiar with it. High density airports is also a big factor. Flying into TEB can be a challenge for a 10K hour pilot that has been there several times.

Your flying skills are probably fine, but don't get in over your head. It is a big responsibility to fly the boss around, not only is he/she depending on you, so are all the other employees and his/her family.

It's not so much the flying that is going to hold you back, it's the decision making that comes from experience. Heck, we are all student pilots in some degree or another regardless if you have 20 hours, 200 hours or 20000 hours.

Get out there and fly, get current, and enjoy the ride. I know you will have a blast!

 

[gutshotdraw]

I don't think you will have any problems with the Citation. If you think you need to go to TEB (and others like it) I would recommend taking a contract pilot with you.

Just remember, every airplane is the same. You have:

Source (hydraulic, electrical, fuel, pneumatic, etc.)
Distribution (wires, hoses, lines, mechanical linkage)
Controls (switches, knobs, levers)
Monitoring (guages)

Good Luck!

You must have gone to Simuflite. But you forgot one:

Source
Distribution
Control
Monitor
Protect (Fire Warning, Crew Alerting, Master Caution, etc.)

Good luck, Nubi!

 

[Say Again Over]

Lots of great info from the other posters, let us know how it goes, good luck!

SAO

 

[ekuflyer]

I agree that insurance would probably be one of the bigger hurdles, but everything is insurable for a price. The other hurdle I see is the getting typed on a jet without an ATP or 1000 hours TT. I don't recall the exact FAR, and my book is not with me on the road today, so I apologize for that. However, I do know that if the aircraft is certified single pilot, SIC time cannot be logged. I know only because I was going to fly a corporate gig as FO in a Citation and was told by the CP that unfortunately I couldn't log it until I became PIC or typed and allowed to fly a leg. If you're typed in the aircraft and the PIC is a current CFI he could call it instruction. The main question is: Would the PIC be legal under the FAR's to make a flight if you got sick and didn't show up? If the answer is yes, then you cannot log SIC time.

For the CJ or any single pilot capable turbo-jet, FlightSafety will not type someone CE-525s (single Pilot) with that amount of time. They will only let you get the CE-525 type which in turn requires an SIC. Yes you can be an SIC with a PIC that is typed CE-525s and log SIC time as long as the PIC has a 61.58 Procheck. There are times (derferred equipment) that the airplane MUST be flown by 2.

Bad info from that CP. You can even get an SIC type in a CE-525 or CE-500.

 

[BushwickBill]

Nubi not sure what you have been doing for $$$ all this time but try to interest the aircraft owner in your ability to manage the aircraft for him. As someone he trusts you can get your foot in the door this way. Once you prove yourself to be valuable the aircraft owner will want to keep you around. Work out the flying part later.

Also keep in mind that rich mo-fos are not to be trusted. They will wipe the floor with your face. I know this from personal experience. Family friend or not watch your back.

 

[NW Flyer]

All good advice. I couldn't tell from your post, but I will assume this will not be an owner/pilot, but and owner/passenger.

If that is true, then here is what I believe would be everyone's best course of action. For the first couple of years, forget that this can be a single pilot plane. That doesn't mean it HAS to be. Hire a full time Captain for the airplane. The perfect guy would be a very experienced corporate type that has run a flight department, and acted as a company flight instructor/check airman. You would hire him with the understanding that for the first year, he would be the Captain, and you the FO. Get him his type, and you an SIC type. Fly that way for a year. At your 1 year recurrent, you get your type, and then you have two Captains, and you can then alternate legs or days with the other guy after that.

There is too much to learn for you just to go get current, get the type and go. Spend a year on the road with an experienced corporate pilot and you will start to get the drift.

 

[nubi78]

Hello all, Thanks for your advice.

I have been speaking with a few pilots in my area and one overwhelming note has been become evident. I will be logging SIC time, and not PIC time until I become qualified to log PIC from the insurance perspective.

That being said, these pilots recommend I not take a jet job for SIC time primarily because they view SIC time as worthless. It was also noted that it would be more advantageous for me to log PIC time by getting a gig instructing.

I find it strange that a year of CFI time is more valuable then a year in the right seat of a Citation logging SIC time. Do you agree?

Also, if the main hurdle is insurance then how the hell am I supposed to ever get out of the SIC rut and actually log PIC time in the Citation? It seems like a dead end if you can't get PIC time. Your thoughts?

 

[gutshotdraw]

Obviously, the plan is to fly the aircraft with two pilots: you as the SIC and an experienced PIC that passes insurance company muster. Yes, you can log the SIC time and yes, SIC jet is more valuable than PIC instructing (As a former CFI, I will say that you learn a lot about flying while teaching and a LOT more about people). It is my understanding that any of the "single pilot" jets require an endorsement on the type rating to operate single pilot. No endorsement: must have an SIC on board (can any CJ guys confirm that?). As NW Flyer pointed out, go to school and get your type rating as soon as you can. Since this sounds like a pure Part 91 gig, once you have your type rating, yes you can log the time in the left seat as PIC. The other guy satisfies the insurance company but either one of you satisfies the regulation for logging PIC time as long as you hold the type and are driving the car from the left seat (some employers say this isn't "true" PIC because you didn't "sign" for the airplane--bollocks in my opinion). The insurance company doesn't get to say how you log time, the CFR does. The insurance company gets to say whether the time you have in all categories meets their demands for insuring you.

 

[imacdog]

Hello all, Thanks for your advice.

I have been speaking with a few pilots in my area and one overwhelming note has been become evident. I will be logging SIC time, and not PIC time until I become qualified to log PIC from the insurance perspective.

That being said, these pilots recommend I not take a jet job for SIC time primarily because they view SIC time as worthless. It was also noted that it would be more advantageous for me to log PIC time by getting a gig instructing.

I find it strange that a year of CFI time is more valuable then a year in the right seat of a Citation logging SIC time. Do you agree?

Also, if the main hurdle is insurance then how the hell am I supposed to ever get out of the SIC rut and actually log PIC time in the Citation? It seems like a dead end if you can't get PIC time. Your thoughts?

So what your friends are saying is half the pilots in this country are logging worthless time. Does that make sense to you? To be a jet PIC eventually, you are going to have to do some right seat time in a jet. You simply can't go to the left seat with 200 hours of piston single time.

 

[pilotpat]

I still stand by my original comment that SIC time cannot be logged in a single pilot jet or ANY other aircraft where the type certificate does not REQUIRE more than one pilot. Now, things might be a bit different if you are a 135 operator and your OpSpecs have specified two pilots required. Its part 91, purely...there are no OpSpecs. So, unless the autopilot or something else is MEL'd, someone show me how you can log SIC. Even if the insurance company says the owner needs another pilot on board for the first 500 hours, they are not regulatory in nature and therefore cannot override the FAR's to allow one to log the time.

Nubi, there'd be nothing cooler than you being in the seat on this airplane, I just wouldn't want you to fly for a year and then have some FAA guy tell you the time was worthless. As far as sitting SIC and logging the time ~ you gotta start somewhere as Imacdog pointed out.