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Need Advise...

  • Thread starter Thread starter mbw
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mbw

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2004
Posts
73
Need Advice...

Can use some advice? I'm sitting right seat on a B1900, upgrade is 12-16 months...Transition to S340 3+yr down the line. Should I stick it out or jump the sinking ship and try for another regional...maybe CHQ ERJ170 who knows?
SIC jet or PIC TurboProp?
Any future for PIC TP?

Will appreciate any advice, thanks
 
Last edited:
mbw said:
Can use some advise? I'm sitting right seat on a B1900, upgrade is 12-16 months...Transition to S340 3+yr down the line. Should I stick it out or jump the sinking ship and try for another regional...maybe CHQ ERJ170 who knows?
SIC jet or PIC TurboProp?
Any future for PIC TP?

Will appreciate any advise, thanks
Advise #1: Open up your dictionary before you update your resume. It's spelled a-d-v-i-c-e.
 
If it's a stable job, I would stay right there. The Saab 340 seems to be a nice aircraft, and even if you don't make big bucks, no one does anymore. Upgrading can be really fun and PIC of anything is awesome experience. I've seen too many new-hires in the last few months with your numbers, and they all think they're going off to Fedex next month just because they're logging big 70 seat jet time. Nothing could be farther from the truth for lack of any tubine PIC time, unless you're a girl. Good luck, stay with the company...
 
mbw said:
SIC jet or PIC TurboProp?
Any future for PIC TP?

Will appreciate any advice, thanks
A friend of mine is a Saab Capt who's got a SWA class date in Jan. How's that for future in a TP?
 
Why is it a sinking ship? Are they tied to a failing airline? Will the airline be around in 12-16 months? Is it 12-16 months because of growth or because so many captains are leaving to fly jet aircraft elsewhere? How about pay?
Usually it is considered a poor choice to make a lateral move. In today's industry that is not always the case. If your airline (Colgan?) is tied to USAir I would seriously consider jumping ship. With USAir facing possible liquidation in just a few weeks, I would be scared if I worked for any airline with ties to them.
Another thing to consider is the ">20K pound a/c turbine PIC" requirment that is on some major airline applications. I don't believe the 1900 is over 20K pounds. So for the applications that have this requirement, your PIC time won't count.
If you are going to make the jump don't ask for the biggest a/c on property (E170). If you have a choice of a/c take the one that goes most junior.
Upgrade times are long everywhere. When looking for a new place to go, look at factors such as who their partners are. If there is movement at the major counterpart, that usually rolls down hill. Continental looks good right now. NW also seems solid. AMR and Delta will both see these times through. United may be OK in the end. USAir is in big trouble. Everyone is loosing BIG money, it's just a matter of who's losing less.
 
if your associated with USAir as the sinking ship you are talking about, it will not matter if you go to Chat. anyway because they will lay off also if / as soon as USAir goes under. So will MESA, TransStates, PSA, Peidmont, Colgan, Etc. So I would stay put.
 
Turbine PIC is important, doesn't matter if props or fans. I got mine at a small charter company in turboprops flying single pilot, hired because I knew a guy who knew a guy. This was during the time that I was supposed to be at CoEx but had training date cancelled after 9/11. I was VERY lucky to find this job so I wouldn't have to go to the regionals. Now flying jets and only 350 hours in my log book is NOT PIC. Get to a PIC position as quick as possible, if that means flying the 1900 then fly the 1900. If that means finding a charter company to throw you in a King Air or Cheyenne, do that. If airline is your goal, stick it out at the regional and get the 121 time if upgrade is only a year away.
 
RE: USAir...........and GE just pledged $140 Million for 31 RJ's......why did they do that?

They've been a sinking ship since the first Gulf war. It's called: Good Accounting.
 
On Your Six said:
If you have the hours go to CHQ and get on a jet.... Simple as that.
not the best advice. I have friends leaving a J-32 for Airtran, SWA & FedEx. Same with DO-328 operators who I know have left for SWA recently. Just because you are on a jet does not grant you and automatic job with the majors. Just ask all the guys with CL-65/EMB-145 types. Go for the Turbine PIC.
 
I agree with most of the other respondents. Unless your current carrier is on shaky ground, stay and get your PIC time. That's what matters so much. From the people I've talked with, they tend to be much more impressed with turbine PIC time on a turboprop than SIC time in a jet. It's true that a few carriers do want to see jet/glass (FMS) time and JetBlue wants time in aircraft over 20K (which the S-340 would meet). But most carriers want to see PIC time. There are plenty of my former Beech 1900D co-workers who went from the 1900D to SWA, FedEx, Air Tran, etc.

So unless your current carrier is on shaky ground, stay and get that PIC time. Moving to CHQ or any other jet regional is very likely going to delay your Upgrade for several years.
 
Do you mind if we ask how old you are? Have a family? That might play big into this decision, in my humble opinion. Understand I am still new to the industry, so take my advice with that in mind; however, I went through the same experience as you.

I was flying at a great regional tied to a mainline partner where the future was uncertain. Upgrade was looking about 18-24 months away there on the SF-340. But, with the unknown future and the fact most attrition was from FOs behind me in seniority (stagnation), I decided to make a move to another regional. I figured at this early point in my career, I could afford to make the somewhat lateral move into jet equipment. Plus, estimations were that upgrade would be four years here, as opposed to two years at the previous company. That is two more years in the right seat learning, observing, and gaining experience to hopefully become a better captain when I actually do upgrade. There were other advantages, like experience in flying across the borders to Mexico and Canada, glass cockpit jet time, FMS experience, and operating in most of the largest airports in North America. This could only make an upward transition to a major airline in the future that much easier.

Realize though that I am 23 years old, single, have no real ties to any city for residence. I can move where I want, and have 37 more years to go in my airline career. In my opinion, I could afford to lose those two years of PIC time for the experience I'm getting here. For someone with a wife, kids, a mortgage, and upwards of 35 years old, those two years could be very important.

Also look at the payscales of each company, as well as the benefits. What happens if you do upgrade at your current company, and this stagnate again? Would you be happy there for 5 more years as PIC? Compare your PIC pay scale to that of the larger regionals currently hiring. I am going to take a guess and say you are at Colgan. Forgive me if I'm wrong. At year 5 as a SF-340 captain, you'll be making approximately $46,000 a year. As a 5th year FO at ExpressJet, you could be making approximately $37-$40,000 a year. If you upgraded, it would be $64-$67,000 a year. Chautauqua, you'd be making $34,000 a year. If you upgraded, $56-$73,000 a year. (Source: www.airlinepilotpay.com)

Consider the schedule. Where will you get more days off? Does each company have block or better? Retirement? If you are young like me, the retirement can be a big decision maker. Any extra in your 401(k) under 30 years old will be just that much more money compounded over time due at retirement.

Anyways, to make a long story short: Take a look at your own personal situation, and weigh the pros and cons of a move to another regional at this point in your career. Consider both the best case and worst case scenarios in your decision, since you never know which way this industry can turn. It really is a gamble either way. Best of luck!
 
mbw said:
Can use some advice? I'm sitting right seat on a B1900, upgrade is 12-16 months...Transition to S340 3+yr down the line. Should I stick it out or jump the sinking ship and try for another regional...maybe CHQ ERJ170 who knows?
SIC jet or PIC TurboProp?
Any future for PIC TP?

Will appreciate any advice, thanks
Why go back to the bottom on the seniority list of another airline? Stick it out. PIC turbine time is PIC turbine time. The carrier I work for, we have guys going to SWA, AWA, AirTran...and back in the day ATA and they're flying the SF-340. I honestly don't think that because your airplane has props, you're chances aren't as good as the guy with the Jets.
Stick it out, keep the number you have and fly. Do you really want to go through another initial training? assuming you recently went through it with the carrier you are with.
 
FlyChicaga said:
Do you mind if we ask how old you are? Have a family?At year 5 as a SF-340 captain, you'll be making approximately $46,000 a year. As a 5th year FO at ExpressJet, you could be making approximately $37-$40,000 a year. If you upgraded, it would be $64-$67,000 a year. Chautauqua, you'd be making $34,000 a year. If you upgraded, $56-$73,000 a year.
Consider the schedule. .
28, married but no kids....still flexible but beginning to get tied down---fast. I've seen the pay scale 5th yr $46,000 or "MAYBE if u upgrade $56,000+ at CHQ". I'm afraid of ending up in a dead end job. Plus for CL is being home everynight, if u live at the base. There are talks that CL has Continental and American lined up for code share if USAir goes under...but who knows?
 
PIC Time

I dont think this has been mentioned but if you upgrade in the mighty Beech and are furloughed or displaced, think how much better marketable you are.

1. You have passed a 121 upgrade program
2. have an ATP rating
3. dont have to take the stupid written again
4. You have an ATP rating in a Beech, which I am guessing makes you eligible for a King Air corp job. Who wouldnt want a guy typed in a 1900 and was a regional Captain.

5. What will you gain by going to another regional at this point. You will lose a year of seniority which I agree is big, but if you get a type and some PIC time out of it you may end up in a better position.

Look at your situation 2 years from now and where you could be

A. Typed in a Beech, ATP certificate 300 hours turine PIC, Captain
B. Good seniority at a decent regional, 800 hours Jet SIC time, no type, no ATP, FO

Like my boy Chicaga said, if QOL is important and you can be based where you are living and can avoid a commute then that might sway you. just some points that helped me make a similar decision not too long ago.

D
 

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