Need advice

DiamondJim

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I need some advise from some of the professionals out there,

I was very fortunate to find a job flying corporate in a BeechJet after a long hiatus from flying. I will be forever greatfull to the guy who gave me this break, but the problem is as time goes on I'm learning that he is a crook. I have a long list of discrepancies including downright theft from the company.

Just a little history... I have been working for this company for a long time in other capacities and did a lot of work to get a reputation with the big wigs that told the Chief pilot to give me a chance. It's a small operation with just the one plane and two pilots although the schedule really demands more.

Any ideas of what to do? I really don't want to be a "snitch" so I've been biding my time thinking they will figure it out sooner or later. But I really don't want my reputation tarnished by anyone thinking that I'm involved in this behavior. Somewhere in the back of my mind I wonder if I was put there to watch this guy. The guy is also a very accomplished liar and a jerk so I think I was a last resort as no one else would take the job. I would stand to gain a lot by snitching on him wich in turn makes it even harder to do......

I'm at my wits end as I get along with him well enough and I've been learning quite a lot from him, and I feel as though I still have a lot to learn.

Any help would be appreciated...... DJ
 

Huck

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1. Start writing down everything. Every time something fishy occurs, write it down and date it.

2. Have you talked to him about stopping this activity? Make it your problem. Say, "Listen, I know you got your way of doing things, but I'm new to this flying business, and I sure don't want to lose this job. Any chance we could do this the right way? I am just a fraidy cat, but can we not rip the company off?"

3. If he won't stop, you OWE your company the information you have. You have a duty to protect the interests of your employer (a duty obviously forgotten by your captain). Give them the written notes you have been writing.

Tough call, man, and I been there. I just quit and moved on, and later was very sorry I didn't stop the guy. He pencil-whipped enough maintenance that the plane crashed, killing him and 2 passengers. Good luck.
 

DC8Driver

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Actually there is no question as to what to do. Do you have moral character or not? It's sad that he put you in the position to do something about it.

You choose to call it snitching. I call it stopping a criminal. If you don't, your just as bad as he is.
 

Alioops

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Hi DJ:

It’s unfortunate but it happens, perhaps more than we’d like to think.

I hope that you’ll have the courage to seek guidance and submit a statement to the CFO, or the firms counsel.

I think about the stockholders and investors – I think about a child’s college fund and retirement funds – stealing is stealing it’s criminal anyway you look at it.

I think that you already know what you have to do, which makes you a very wise person.

Good luck.

Alioops
 

RJones

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Advice

DJ,

I'd do everything Huck said except number 2. I wouldn't say a thing to him and do number 1 for about six months. Build a complete list of indiscretions by him and then call a meeting with the CEO and all the VP's and disclose this info to them. Make sure you have a smoking gun on him, something really serious.

You want to keep a record of everything you feel to be inappropriate and during this time start looking for a replacement job. Be ready to be fired 'cause this guy may be in really tight with your management.

Just remember that in the end you've done the right thing.

RJ
 

mense

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DJ,

I also agree with Huck, I wouldn't go to the CEO behind your cp back. I would get my list all ready and confront your CP about his doings and if he blows you off than take it up to the CEO desk. Your there for the safety of the crew, equipment and mostly the passingers. I seen the trick of the co-pilot go behind the CP back and get the CP fired (twice). Those pilots still carry that rep of being a scumbag till this date. 10 years on the first and 3 years on the other.

Its called working together.
Good luck.
 

RJones

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If you want to keep your job, do not confront your CP... he's a criminal, if you must, set him up somehow but cover your a$$. Don't be an idiot, don't make it *your* problem like Huck and Mense say.

Look for another job, and try to make his activity come without anyone knowing it was you. The last thing to do would be to go to the CEO and let him know and quit if that is needed, but don't be surprised if he won't take the meeting. You could be doing your company a million-dollar favor -- they don't care they'd get rid of both of you, and the plane.

Has anyone here actually done this before?? At the very least, I'd suggest you not follow the advice of anyone who hasn't. And, Huck, don't feel so bad about the guy who ended up crashing -- there was nothing you could have done. If the company cared about safety, it would have been performing regular audits. You did the right thing by leaving the situation -- it really is *all* you can do without seriously damaging your career.

"I seen the trick of the co-pilot go behind the CP back and get the CP fired (twice). Those pilots still carry that rep of being a scumbag till this date."

Right, so what these guys are saying is that the other guy is a thief and you're a "scumbag" for not "working together?" I don't get it. You cannot "work together" with people like this. Work your way out.

RJ
 

Timebuilder

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As you build your paper trail, include a good attorney to help construct a record where you observe the crimes while remaining clear of any possibility of being labled a "participant" or "accessory".
 

CE650SC

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What to do?

Whatever you do, don't go to your partner! Take it from someone who has been through what you are going through, don't go to him. If he is as big of a crook as you say, he will have you fired, and your record will be tarnished.
Either nail his a$$ to the wall legally, or get yourself a new job.
Only you know what he is doing, but if he is stealing and they find out you know, you're gone also. Don't let him ruin your career. If you can't prove his wrong doing, just get out as soon as you can.
Good luck to you
 

Clownpilot

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Simple

This is an easy one.

Have him killed.

Or kill him yourself.

If you have him killed go through a third party. Never speak directly to the hitter. Just let it be known that there is someone that you don't need to have around any more and wish would disappear. Suggest that there would be a reward for anyone who could help you with that problem. Say things like, "I wish he would just go away" Never say that you want him dead.

If you decide to kill him yourself invite him on a camping trip. Then when he's not looking hit him in the head with something heavy. Then toss him in the river. That covers up a lot after he's been in the river for a while. When he doesn't show back up at work say that he did go with you camping but went hiking on his own and never came back. Don't get too caught up in trying to explain where he might have gone. Try to look puzzled. If the police arrest you don't give any details. Just say that you think it would be best if your lawyer spoke for you. Speak only in generalities. Never give specific details that they can use to trap you with by catching you in a lie. Remember, its you or them. Don't try to save money on the lawyer. Get yourself a good one.

It might also be smart to talk about what a great guy he was and how you miss him so people will think you liked him and won't suspect you. If they convict you and put you in prison don't rat out the other prisoners in jail. They don't like when people do that.

Good luck.
 

Huck

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"Then toss him in the river. That covers up a lot after he's been in the river for a while."

That was the best laugh I've had in months. You are one twisted hombre. I needed that....

"Hey, Cap'n, you wanna go camping?"
 
Last edited:

CL60

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Advice

DiamondJim,

Lots of varied responses. Mostly, the advice you've received so far is to document everything, and either to confront the CP or do not confront him.

As a reader of a message board receiving limited information from only one perspective, it is difficult to ascertain your actual situation. You need to sit down face to face with an objective and informed third party and get some perspective before you ruin someone's career or, for that matter, your own career.

If you are flying with someone who poses a physical threat to others, then you have a moral and ethical obligation as a professional pilot and human being to do something about it. If he is in fact a thief, then you have a moral and ethical obligation as a professional pilot and human being to do something about it.

"Snitching" is something criminals do to other criminals. Unveiling some scumsucking thief from his dark little hidyhole is heroic.

If he is a thief and you find your sack, go straight to the top and let them know first that you don't want his job!!! Then tell them he's ripping them off. Prove it with facts and make sure you do it all before your career gets flushed!! Time is a factor here. If he's stealing, its only a matter of time before some bean counter figures it out. Don't get caught in someone else's self-imposed purgatory.
 

DiamondJim

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Thanks All

Thanks for all of the imput.... It helps to see all the variations of what needs to be done and by the different opinions I think you all can see what I'm going through... It's not as easy as it seems at first glance.

I've been here now for about 18 months. I have the list intact and even have the smoking gun as someone suggested. Now it's just time to take action. It's really scarry when I have a family to support and the job market being as it is. I know it has to be done though. I'm not going to confront the CP for the reasons mentioned... I have a good relationship with the CEO and I think going to him is the only way. I spoke with him today but couldn't get away from CP to lay it all out..... Funny how this guy will not let me out of his sight when the big guy's around. It's like he knows what I'm about to do.

Thanks for all the help on this matter.... DJ
 

501261

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DJ,

Just a couple of ideas from a CP's perspective. Better make sure that what you document is some good stuff. Not some petty stuff like taking a few beers out of the fridge after a 14 hour duty day. Remember that the CEO has trusted this CP for some time now and might not care if he is stealing. Also,remember that corporate aviation is a very small field and everybody knows everybody. If you get painted a snitch you will probably have a hard time finding any quality jobs.

On the other hand there is a lot of bad people in aviation and they really don't do anybody any favors. Having one bad apple CP might convince the CEO to close the flight department and he might convince his buddies to close there flight departments too.

There are lots of opprtunities to steal in corporate aviation and personal integrity is something a lot of people lack.

For your sake DJ, I hope this CP is a real bum, because people like that really make it difficult for everybody in this business.

Good luck.
 
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