Need a NASA form...Now.

[TurboS7]

That has been 8000 since the beginning of time. I am sure everyone raised their eyebrows. File the NASA report and forget about it.

 

[NuGuy]

Hmm, good news I guess.

In 27 years of flying with no violations, I am getting paranoid.

Hi CSY,

First, the good news. Most crossing restrictions are not for traffic, but rather airspace agreements. The LOAs between facilites basically states that you will deposit aircraft at such place at such altitude. This is why they usually could care less when you tell them you arn't going to make a restriction on a STAR unless it's a busy place.

Although LR is a current ATCer, I had heard in the last year or so that the FAA doesn't care if the controller tells you or not, and that they can still tag you if it gets reported.

In the past, I had heard that if they don't read you the little script that begins "NXXXX a possible pilot deviation has occured at XXXX altitude. For more information please contact this facility at XXX-XXX-XXXX during normal busniness hours" you were off the hook. There were even a few NTSB appeal decisions that went in this favor. But then I heard that the FAA got pissed at pilots getting off on this and changed to rules so they can burn you either way.

BUT the only way you get tagged is if A) the controller turns you in, which 99.9% won't because it's a HUGE hassle for them as well as you, B) Some Fed or ATC supe is looking over their shoulder when it happens or C) if the "snitch" goes off (the ATC computer program that calculates separation...basically 5 miles or 1000 feet separation for center airspace...different for terminal).

If C happens, you can bet you will hear about it because it prints out right at the ATC supervisors desk, even if it's 4.999 nm separation. It gets automatically forwarded to "Quality Assurance" which pulls the radar and comm tapes. If they find it was a controller error, thats that. But if they think it was pilot error, it gets forwarded to the FSDO.

The bad news: A NASA form does NOT prevent a finding of violation. It only suspends the penalty. The ding will still show up on your record. It is NOT a get out of jail free card.

Nu

 

[FN FAL]

Had a brand new FO today that read back the wrong altitude and we ended up 1000' below assigned.

Did you tax that ass?

 

[English]

I miss flying single pilot - copilots screw up too often.

 

[FN FAL]

I miss flying single pilot - copilots screw up too often.

Every time I have a jumpseater on board, I gotta watch myself. If you fly alone alot, you tend to forget about how much of a distraction it is to have someone else up front.

 

[U-I pilot]

the whole point of NASA report is to get data anyways. Just file so that those NASA guys earn their salary and sort through one more piece of paperwork and come to some conclusion how to improve the system....

 

[English]

Every time I have a jumpseater on board, I gotta watch myself. If you fly alone alot, you tend to forget about how much of a distraction it is to have someone else up front.

Distraction isn't the word I was thinking of. "USELESS" is more like it. But, we all have to start somewhere. It just sucks when your copilot is so green and inexperienced (young) that he is too young to drink legally in this country. But, he's old enough to lose his entire expense cash reserve on gambling in Vegas.

I'd rather fly single pilot. I'm tired of coming to the rescue. If I had wanted kids, I would have forgone the surgery.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

U should come fly for us. We have a lot of FOs in their 30s and 40s. We also have pilots go from Little Plane Capt to Big Plane FO, so some FOs are even in their 50s.

CLiff
YIP

 

[English]

Thanks cliff, but no thanks.

I'd have to listen to pilotyip explain the virtues of forgoing a degree every day.

I think I'll just wait for my copilot to grow up.

 

[CSY Mon]

That has been 8000 since the beginning of time.

Yeah, 7000 did not ring a bell, for some reason it sounded odd, but I heard the FO read back 7000' so I thought it was okay, did scan the TCAS just in case, but of course I should have picked up the mike instead....

Did you tax that ass?

Nah, we all make mistakes, it could be me the next time..Although higly unlikely.

It just sucks when your copilot is so green and inexperienced (young) that he is too young to drink legally in this country.

I don't get them young guys anymore...On the Twin Otter they came right from Embry Riddle with 300 hours and knew it all.
On the 747 we get the recycled guys, the one yesterday was 47 years old and probably have as many or more hours than daddy...Thats why you think they know what they are doing.