Nbaa Website.... Reply To A Job Posting

[ruhroa]

I am submitting this without comment............






-- Original Message -----

From: Phil Fountain


To: NBAA Jobs Air Mail


Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 3:51 PM


Subject: RE: [NBAA-jobs] Falcon 50 Captain





Hello Mark,



I saw this posting on the NBAA website and wanted to provide some information on how I may be able to assist your company in filling the Falcon 50 captain position.



I flew for Tenneco for 30 years and 25 as a captain on F-27s, Falcon-20, G1159, Cessna 560 & 650 aircraft. I have 16,000 hours and have full (early) retirement and medical. I’m 61 years old and still would like to fly for a part 91 operation. I have 5,825 hours of Falcon time and was a PPE on the F-27.



If interested, we can discuss the sharing of the cost of a type in the Falcon-50. I like to share my experiences with up and coming pilots that may be needed as a Captain at a later date. I you are interested in pursuing a relationship I will be pleased to send my resume.



Regards,



Phil Fountain



P.S. By the way I live only about an hour away in Racine

 

[fatburger]

What's wrong with that? Sounds like he paid his dues had a full career and wants to continue the dream. Don't know the guy from Adam but from what you wrote doesn't sound like a big deal. He did say he'd share in getting a type. Doesn't sound like PFT to me. He's not a 1500hr wonder buying a job.

just my opinion.....

-fatburger-

 

[Flying Illini]

He did say he'd share in getting a type. Doesn't sound like PFT to me. He's not a 1500hr wonder buying a job.

So it's OK for someone nearing the end of their career to "share" the cost of a type but if someone at the beginning of their career does it, it's wrong?

With his experience he shouldn't be so desperate for the job. The company should be happy to have him on board. It's like he's trying to move his name to the top of the list (in front of who knows how many other applicants who may currently be F50 captains) by offering to pay the company for his job. PFT is PFT is PFT no matter who is doing it. Even if the company decides to hire him and pay for all of his training, he still has undercut the rest of us by using his offer to pay for training to get him in the door.

I don't know him either, I just think he should have more respect for his experience level. He seems insecure.

 

[fatburger]

Don't know if he's insecure or not but I do feel for the older generation and have a great deal of respect for the aviators that came before us. My father hit mandatory retirement a year ago and it was the hardest thing to watch a stellar career come to an end before he was ready. I guess we just interpreted the post differently. And we both could be totally wrong.

It didn't sound like a pft thing to me. If he meant to imply he'd pft to get the position knowlingly then its wrong. I didn't think the old timers understood the whole pft thing. But I could be wrong.

-fatburger-

 

[Flying Illini]

Watching a career end prematurely would be a terrible thing to see and an even more terrible thing to experience. I do hope that this guy finds a job that he can enjoy for a few more years until he's ready hang it up.
Your father deserves a pat on the back for enduring for so long in such a tumultuous <sp?> career field.

 

[semperfido]

Fatburger is on the mark....no problem with it either

 

[Flying Illini]

so PFT is the way to compete now?
I'm curious what the responses would be if he didn't say how old he was.

Just trying to sort through this apparent double standard,
JD

 

[semperfido]

hmmm.

 

[Flyboy Sabre 65]

PFT is PFT. No matter who does it. In my book its always wrong!!!!

 

[rice]

Bull$hit!!!!!

What's wrong with that? Sounds like he paid his dues had a full career and wants to continue the dream. Don't know the guy from Adam but from what you wrote doesn't sound like a big deal. He did say he'd share in getting a type. Doesn't sound like PFT to me. He's not a 1500hr wonder buying a job.

just my opinion.....

-fatburger-

Sorry about the language but........

I read the original post on "Airmail" and agree with Ruhroa. FatBurger, you might want to go back and reread it too.

First, the guy took an early (full) retirement from Tenneco after a 30 yr career.
Sounds like he's had it better than most and probably deserved every penny earned but that is no excuse to undercut every other professional pilot out there trying to support a family.

Second, he is willing to "share" the cost of getting the DA-50 Type.
Do you think he ever made this offer to his employer of the past 30 yrs? I don't know but my money says probably not.

What this really sounds like to me is that the guy "retired" early for whatever reason but still wants to fly. Since he's got the security of a "full" retirement from his previous employer its no sweat for him to pony up the cash for half of the type and one can only assume (by his post) work for half the industry wage.

If this guy still wants to fly then he should find another gig the way most of do it and not undercut the profession or work as a contract pilot and charge the appropriate daily rate.

 

[StaySeated]

I don't have as big of a problem with the "sharing" as I do with posting the email. You post people's first and last names while under an alias to set up some sort of bashing circle-jerk. I don't know any of these people, and I hope that you don't, but I think you may have made your point without the email.

 

[kilroy]

With his experience and time he has put in the thought of pft should never cross his mind. At what point in your career are you worth enough for a company to hire you pay for your training and develop a professional relationship thru trust not thru paying them for your job. Its almost as bad as competing for the same job as a retired airline captain.They can afford to do the job for almost half its worth. So naturally the employer will hire a retired guy at a huge savings to the company before he hires a younger guy who really wants to work hard just to get the NBAA average salary there for whoring the wages for us hard working guys.

 

[bafanguy]

What this really sounds like to me is that the guy "retired" early for whatever reason but still wants to fly. Since he's got the security of a "full" retirement from his previous employer its no sweat for him to pony up...

Allow me to "inform" you of the reality of retirement: There is no such thing as a secure retirement. You don't understand that now because you aren't living it now but you will get your chance to see it first hand eventually. Come back and talk to us then.....

 

[kilroy]

I do understand what you are saying about retirement and have no problem with retired guys flying. But please don,t whore the market accepting jobs at far under the salary average. We need to stick together and try to make this an affordable occupation for all working hard to get here. All I,m saying his when applying for a job you know is in high demand don't lower your standards for pay just so you can get the job. Let your knowledge experience and personality win you the job not because you can afford to fly for the least amount of pay. Now please in no way think I'm aiming this at you . I know little about you and don't mean to offend I'm just trying to make a point

Allow me to "inform" you of the reality of retirement: There is no such thing as a secure retirement. You don't understand that now because you aren't living it now but you will get your chance to see it first hand eventually. Come back and talk to us then.....

 

[ruhroa]

I don't have as big of a problem with the "sharing" as I do with posting the email. You post people's first and last names while under an alias to set up some sort of bashing circle-jerk. I don't know any of these people, and I hope that you don't, but I think you may have made your point without the email.

i simply took what was posted by this guy his name and all from a email that was sent to every subscriber on the airmail nbaa site.....he posted it all publicaly(sp) all i did was paste and post....... by the by i got banned from recieving nbaa mail now cause i replied on their forum to what i thought of this guy.............

 

[semperfido]

this is no union and i don't care about sticking together. it is a dog eat dog world. however, i would probably help you or anyone any way i could. and if i wanted a job bad enough i would undercut you in a heartbeat.

PS: we will all probably be working until we are 80.

 

[shaq]

Anyone who sees this as anything other than PFT needs to have their head examined.

As for the retirement end of this discussion, how are the rest of us ever going to get somewhere long enough to retire with people like this gem running around ? He is simply putting in the notion of sharing the type rating expenses to place his name in front of everyone else that is not willing to undermine their qualifications/experience in such a way...

And as for "continuing the dream," this kind of garbage is turning the dream in to a nightmare for all of us.

 

[Flyboy Sabre 65]

So your the guy they banned. I'm glad I kept my mouth shut.

 

[AA717driver]

If he wants to share his experience, he should get on with a frac or instruct at FSI. No one on here had better say a word about PFT from now on.

He has his retirement. The vagaries of the market are something everyone has to deal with. I got hosed by TWA and AA. Guess I have carte blanche to whore myself out because I won't be walking away with a seven-figure retirement. IOW, the frailty of anyone's retirement is irrelevent to this discussion.

Hey Illini! Looks like we'd better shave our legs and put on the mini-skirt and fishnets. Guess we all know what we are--we just haven't determined a price. TC

 

[prpjt]

.....he posted it all publicaly(sp) all i did was paste and post....... by the by i got banned from recieving nbaa mail now cause i replied on their forum to what i thought of this guy.............

Not to bash here, but the guy did not post his information in a public forum. The NBAA forums are for the use of it's members, and the content shouldn't be copied to a public board.