Navy vs. Airforce GPAs

[Ragansundowner]

I've been under the impression that the Navy tends to accept on average a lower college GPA than the Airforce for pilot training. I was wondering if this was correct and maybe any insight as too why the Airforce tends to look more at grades?

I guess the question of why the Airforce requires mandatory 12 hour days in the beginning of UPT and the Navy only makes you show up for the time you need to be there, falls in those lines too? It seems as if the Airforce places a much greater emphasis on academics than the Navy does, what with stand-ups, etc. why is this?

 

[OldTomcat]

I've been under the impression that the Navy tends to accept on average a lower college GPA than the Airforce for pilot training. I was wondering if this was correct and maybe any insight as too why the Airforce tends to look more at grades?

I guess the question of why the Airforce requires mandatory 12 hour days in the beginning of UPT and the Navy only makes you show up for the time you need to be there, falls in those lines too? It seems as if the Airforce places a much greater emphasis on academics than the Navy does, what with stand-ups, etc. why is this?

R.S. --- You can't be very smart to sign up to go out on a boat for six-months at a time. Seriously, GPA doesn't matter to most of us who are (or were recently in), it is more of a filter for detailers, regardless, you want to get the best grades you can. Ask the detailer the specific GPA requirements. MAKE SURE YOU ARE TALKING TO AN OFFICER RECRUITER, not enlisted.

The 12-hour day thing is a gross generalization --- your rear-end belongs to Uncle Sam when you get in, no union work-hour limits. Very generally speaking, the Navy tends to give you a little more rope to hang yourself with. Not sure where you got the USN: "only.. for the time you need to be there" gouge (navy slang), but my interpretation of that would be that the Navy lets you decide whether to study or not--- and flunk out of flight training or not.

You're really kind of in the weeds if you are planning to join-- differences are bigger than the GPA, I think.

C

 

[Ragansundowner]

I'm definitely aware that the differences are much larger than just GPA and I've taken as much into consideration about choosing a service as I possibly can. It was merely an observation that I was wondering if people could broaden on. I in no way intended to say anything negative about either service because I have the utmost respect for people in both. Just looking for a little discussion on how each service does things.

-R.S.

 

[kelleyadai]

Yes yes..the rope the navy will give you to hang yourself on is long and strong! I saw guys do it.

"Study when you want" is also a way of saying "If we don't see you at squadron for business hours and you screw up on a flight, stand-by. Also, remember a great deal of the training is joint AF and Navy...so keep that in mind..how different could they really be?

I would have serious problems beliving that the GPA requirements are that different..also remeber what other thousand factors are taken into consideration: sports/ activities etc...both services take qualified folks and then it is up to the indv to excel.

AF/Navy do have different Standard operating Procedures though (from what I hear from my AF peers) The way they phrase it is "The Navy will tell you what you can't do, the AirForce regulations will tell you what you can do." See the difference in freedom there??

Ultimatley, make your decision based on platform and lifestyle. Look at where you would be stationed for the different platforms you want to fly in the different services..and if you want to land/live on big gray boats.

 

[dasburt]

Navy vs Air Force.

I am a retired navy helo driver/crew chief.

Both services are a great organization to fly for. You have to decide what you want to do. Fly into nice big beautiful airbases with great BOQ’s,clubs, swimming pools (AF requires these facilities to be built before a runway is laid down) or land on a small little bit of moving metal at night way out to see with no opportunity to go back to the beach if you cant get aboard.

Every tail-hook pilot I have known that is a combat vet said the same thing. On the way to combat the nerves start to act up and the stress builds. In combat, training takes over and the stress goes down somewhat. Post combat nerves hit some guys on the way back. While landing on the boat at night, the stress levels go right off the meter. That’s why we try to fly everyday while at sea regardless of the weather. I have seen green water coming over the bow while guys where taking off and landing. Normal day at sea in the N Atlantic.

I worked on staffs with Navy, AF and Army pilots.

The biggest difference between the Navy and AF is:

The AF has rules on what you can do in the air; nothing else is permitted while flying.

The Navy has rules on what you CANT do in the air, everything else is fair game. As long as you do not violate any fed, or state rules.

Both services are extremely unforgiving for any rule violation. Pros do not flat hat.

The Navy gives its pilots a lot more responsibility early on in their flying career. As an Aircraft commander when I was a LT (CAPT for you AF Types), it was my decision to launch on a SAR mission or not to launch. As I understand it in the AF you have to go up the chain of command depending on the level of risk involved with the mission. If I was on the schedule as the HAC (Helo A/C Commander), then it was my decision; I was not required to call any other senior officer/pilot to get permission. PERIOD.

The bad news is that the Navy is now slowly starting to sound and feel like the AF. I currently fly Navy aircraft for a contractor, so I have seen the changes. Some are good some are…. well lets just say "That’s Different".

As far as flying for the Army, well that’s a totally different world. Those guys are all certifiably nuts. They are indeed the greatest bunch of pilots the world has ever known. I have worked with them both on active duty and in the civilian world. Great guys, Great Pilots. Were else can a 19 year old HS grad get to fly the worlds most sophisticated and lethal attack helicopter. I fly with some Army WO now; I would not hesitate to fly into combat with these guys. THEIR GREAT.

I will give you a few warnings. If you join either the AF or Navy and make it a career you probably will not stay in the cockpit the entire 20 years. You have a better chance to fly longer in the Navy vice the AF. But on the other hand you will do more flying the first 6 years in the AF than you will in the Navy.

But also you will have to do the dreaded disassociated tour in the Navy. Yupper that’s right 2+ years on a boat that might or might not have airplanes on it. It could be a big deck carrier, a helo carrier with billions and billions of Marines aboard or you could be on a LPD/LPH with a small 1 or 2 helo spots on the back end and billions and billions of Marines aboard. Or you could be on a DESRON Staff on a destroyer or cruiser and nothing but billions and billions of Black shoes all round you (that’s what we call the guys in the surface Navy, as they were not allowed to wear brown shoes while I was in, now they are).

Either way you go it will be a blast to be in a modern aviation squadron either navy or AF.

Good luck have fun, fly safe, study your butt off in flight school and get the platform you want vice the one they give you.
.

 

[CCDiscoB]

That was funny

Ragansundowner, you must one of those Generation X we hear about. Are you seriously are concerned about 12 hour days? The military might not be for you. Old Tomcat was correct about the Navy's program, it's the big boy approach. The AF's program is more structured, and some guys really need that kind of structure, I did.

p.s. The Navy's 12 hour days come after you graduate, once they've got you "on-board." Ever hear the term "sleep when you're dead." Here's a hint, it's not an AF term.

 

[Ragansundowner]

Hehe, I guess I probably am one of those generation x people, but I have absolutely no problem working 12 hour days or more. I figure as long as I get to fly every now and then, serve my country, and on top of that I get paid to do it, then I won't really mind how long the days are.

-R.S.

 

[MercuryPilot]

Before you start worrying too much about the GPA requirement you prabably want to ask yourself how well you can swim. Long before you even get to Navy primary they are going to do their best to drown you in API (Aviation Preflight Indoctrination). If being upside down blindfolded at the bottom of a pool in a helicopter doesn't interest you then go AF. If trying to find your way out from under a parachute in the water doesn't interest you then go AF. The Navy will weed out the weakbodies in a hurry.

Seriously, don't worry about who accepts the higher GPA-it's not a contest. Either you want to fly Navy or you want to fly AF. The programs/mind-sets are completely different. I went thru Navy primary/intermediate (T-34C) and AF advanced (T-1A) from 96'-97' and the requirements to do well are the same. - If you study and prepare for your flights you'll do fine in either program. Only difference is the Navy doesn't make you study in the squadron spaces. In Navy flight school the only requirements are for you to show up for your brief on time and be prepared to fly. If you don't know the material they'll either give you a Ready Room Down or put you on Supervised Study (where you can start logging mandatory 12 hour days at the squadron). The Navy WILL NOT hold your hand in flight school. They will cut dead weight quick and send you to be the fuels officer on a ship. For most SNAs (Student Naval Aviators) that's motivation enough.

If you come to VT-6 at NAS Whiting Field, I'll be waiting.

B-Rex

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Re: Navy vs Air Force.

The bad news is that the Navy is now slowly starting to sound and feel like the AF. I currently fly Navy aircraft for a contractor, so I have seen the changes. Some are good some are…. well lets just say "That’s Different."

Great post, Dasburt, but I must rebut this line. As a guy who has flown in both AF and Navy commands, I can say that they are light years apart in the responsibility department. As a Navy Mission Commander, my job was to be a decision-maker from the moment I awoke to the moment I went to sleep. In my Air Force command, I rarely made any kind of decisions regarding flying. They are all made for you. Go/no-go? all I have to do is look up at the status board with all kinds of lights to tell me what I can and can't do. Somebody else literally makes my decision as to whether or not I go flying and what types of flights I can do based on their judgement. My judgement means jack (unless it's to be more conservative than the powers that be). Got a malfunction? Open up the decision matrix in my inflight guide. It literally tells me whether or not to declare an emergency, and what type of malfunctions consititute landing immediately or as soon as practical, etc. The Air Force rule books are amazingly thick. The thing is, it's a no-brainer. Know the rules and abide by them and you can't lose. At first I hated flying for the Air Force because of all the hand-holding, but I grew to like it a bit more when I realized how much responsibility had been lifted from my shoulders. However, the satisfaction I felt at the end of everyday of flying with the navy and having to actually think and make tough decisions in the "grey" areas was awesome. Bottom line though, whether you wear gold wings or lead wings, it's a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** good lifestyle.

As far as the differences in flight school, it's true, the Navy style is much more friendly to the student. The organizational structure of the two types or training are just so different that it's hard to compare. Knowing what I know now, I would stay as far away from the Air Force training as I could.

Good luck out there...

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

I've never heard that stuff about lower GPA for the Navy. What I do know is that of the people in the Naval Academy and NROTC, the pilot slots generally go to the folks with the Highest GPA's because they get to pick first. I've also heard that at the AF Academy, if you are physically qualified for a pilot slot, you get one, regardless of GPA. Looking at it that way, I would be led to believe the average gold winger would have a higher GPA. I have no idea what the competetive GPA's are for OCS. I'd be interested to hear more about this.

 

[CCDiscoB]

Swim Lessons

Reading this quote reminded me about something:

Before you start worrying too much about the GPA requirement you probably want to ask yourself how well you can swim. Long before you even get to Navy primary they are going to do their best to drown you in API (Aviation Preflight Indoctrination).

A bi-product of Joint SUPT is that our international friends that would have gone to an AF flight school suddenly may find themselves at a Naval flight school. Back when I was a UPT IP we had students from Kuwait and Saudi. One of my students, a Kuwaiti, told me that his friend went to Pensacola and has spent the last 6 months learning to swim. He couldn't get past the swimming indoc. You'd think the Navy would have yielded on that issue, but nooooo.

 

[DaveGriffin]

Re: Swim Lessons

Back when I was a UPT IP we had students from Kuwait and Saudi. One of my students, a Kuwaiti, told me that his friend went to Pensacola and has spent the last 6 months learning to swim. He couldn't get past the swimming indoc. You'd think the Navy would have yielded on that issue, but nooooo.

How ridiculous and insensitive of the Navy, expecting its pilots, to be able to swim and escape from a cockpit in the water. Where's the logic in that?

What if the stress of the water training has damaged some of the students’ self-esteem?

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Let's see, Kuwait is bordered by a body of water known as the Arabian Gulf. Hmmmm. Also, training of international students is not a by-product of SUPT, both the Navy and the Air Force have been doing it for decades. Let the flaming digression continue....

 

[Abe_Froman]

Off topic, I know...

Hey Mr. Griffin:

Since when is "C-130 Combat Talon" a rating?

Just curious.

 

[DaveGriffin]

Re: Off topic, I know...

Hey Mr. Griffin:

Since when is "C-130 Combat Talon" a rating?

Just curious.

I also wrote "jumped not flown". I am very lucky and have had the opportunity to jump the C-130 Blackbird many times. Tactical night rubber duck drops are something that not very many people get the opportunity to do. It is a great airplane with great crews.

 

[Skyrunner]

Please edumacate me

Just a question. What is the C-130 Blackbird? Not flaming, just questioning.

Adios,

SR

 

[Vandal]

Re: Please edumacate me

Just a question. What is the C-130 Blackbird? Not flaming, just questioning.

Adios,

SR

It's the mythical airplane he pretends to jump out of.

 

[Abe_Froman]

hmmm....

I see. So, by "Combat Talon", you mean the M C-130E or H-model, right?

I'm also curious.

 

[Mud Eagle]

Re: Re: Please edumacate me

It's the mythical airplane he pretends to jump out of.

Maybe he's talking about the MC-130s of the 8th SOS "Blackbirds" out of Hurlburt Field?

 

[CCDiscoB]

Hugh, Let me clarify. I never said that the training of international students is a by-product of SUPT. The training of international students by the navy is a by-product of JSUPT.

Griff, if swimming was such a critical necessity to become a pilot, then why doesn’t’ the AF train their pilots to swim? Because we don’t fly off of boats, that’s why. The task you mentioned, escape from cockpit in water is strictly a carrier requirement. A Kuwaiti, flying over the Gulf, will eject long before he needs to rely on his swimming skills to get himself out of the cockpit. That’s what water survival training is for. That’s why we fly with LPUs. To read what you guys wrote, everyone needs swimming lessons. What about Saudi student pilots? Should they go through the Naval haze? Save the swim lessons for the PJs and Seals.