Navy vs. Airforce GPAs

[Skyrunner]

Please edumacate me

Just a question. What is the C-130 Blackbird? Not flaming, just questioning.

Adios,

SR

 

[Vandal]

Re: Please edumacate me

Just a question. What is the C-130 Blackbird? Not flaming, just questioning.

Adios,

SR

It's the mythical airplane he pretends to jump out of.

 

[Abe_Froman]

hmmm....

I see. So, by "Combat Talon", you mean the M C-130E or H-model, right?

I'm also curious.

 

[Mud Eagle]

Re: Re: Please edumacate me

It's the mythical airplane he pretends to jump out of.

Maybe he's talking about the MC-130s of the 8th SOS "Blackbirds" out of Hurlburt Field?

 

[CCDiscoB]

Hugh, Let me clarify. I never said that the training of international students is a by-product of SUPT. The training of international students by the navy is a by-product of JSUPT.

Griff, if swimming was such a critical necessity to become a pilot, then why doesn’t’ the AF train their pilots to swim? Because we don’t fly off of boats, that’s why. The task you mentioned, escape from cockpit in water is strictly a carrier requirement. A Kuwaiti, flying over the Gulf, will eject long before he needs to rely on his swimming skills to get himself out of the cockpit. That’s what water survival training is for. That’s why we fly with LPUs. To read what you guys wrote, everyone needs swimming lessons. What about Saudi student pilots? Should they go through the Naval haze? Save the swim lessons for the PJs and Seals.

 

[T1bubba]

CC,

International students were training with the Navy long before JSUPT. I think there were six or seven nations with students at Whiting when I went through, including Saudi's and Kuwaiti's. It was each nation's choice which service their students trained with.

FWIW, I think you should have to be able to swim to be a military pilot, although not necessarily to the Navy's standards. You never know what could happen in a ditching. And not all of us have the option of punching out.

 

[OldTomcat]

Swimming "Bone" Dudes

NEWS from 12/12/01; Bone crash around Diego. I heard a third-hand account, there was some serious water survival involved. Anyone hear the story firsthand? USAF--- we don't have ships everywhere in the ocean you might decide to crash.


WASHINGTON (AP) — An Air Force B-1B bomber flying a long-range combat mission to Afghanistan crashed in the Indian Ocean Wednesday. A Navy ship pulled all four crew members to safety. "We're all pretty bruised up and have some cuts, but overall we're doing very well," the bomber's pilot, Capt. William Steele, told reporters at the Pentagon in a satellite telephone call from the USS Russell, the guided missile destroyer that launched a small boat to rescue the crew in darkness. Steele spoke about five hours after his B-1B Lancer crashed into the warm waters 60 miles north of Diego Garcia, a British-controlled island in the central Indian Ocean. He said the crew spent two hours in the water before the Russell came to their rescue, aided by an Air Force KC-10 that first located the downed fliers, maintained radio contact and pinpointed their location for the Russell.

 

[firstthird]

We've been training foreign students for at least 10 years, probably much longer. And the way I understood it was that who trained them was dependent on what type of aircraft their country had purchased. For instance, if Kuwait bought F-16s, they'd go thru Air Force training; whereas if UAE bought F-18s, they'd go thru Navy training. It makes sense to send anyone who is going to be flying at the F-18 rag (frs) with Navy/USMC types thru water survival. And it is good for more than just when your jet goes down. More than one person has had to egress from a helo when they were just getting a short hop out to a boat. From what I know, the Navy makes anyone who goes out to the boat do their water survival, including reporters and famous people types. Well, actually, I'm basing that the the signed picture of Joan Lunden from the Today Show (I think) that adorns the wall of the water survival building here in Jacksonville.

 

[Papyco]

I think the reason that the Navy makes ALL students going through its training pipe line swim qualified is because all of those students will be flying over the water the whole time they are training with the Navy. If one of those trainers goes down over the water, the student must know how to survive. It wouldn’t do the Navy too much good to have a foreign student die in 10 feet deep water 100 yards from the shore.

 

[chawbein]

Jeez, It's just someone having to learn to swim. It's not that big of a deal. You act like the Navy is requiring everbody to learn underwater basket weaving or something useless.

 

[Abe_Froman]

I'm...uhh... going to have to...disagree

I think the reason that the Navy makes ALL students going through its training pipe line swim qualified is because all of those students will be flying over the water the whole time they are training with the Navy. If one of those trainers goes down over the water, the student must know how to survive

That may apply to the foreign students, but as an AF guy that went through T-44s, I can tell you we didn't have to be swim qualified. Attending water survival was enough. Sure, the training areas are over the gulf, but we didn't have swim training or qualification.

...Then again, maybe you're just referring to flying in/around the boat.

 

[firstthird]

water survival is swim qualed. There may be some other swim instruction that pure navy guys get at USNA or OCS but it isn't specifically required for flying. Your water survival qual is every 4 years. I think the reason some of the foreign nationals have trouble is because they don't swim well. 100 yards in a flight suit and boots isn't that tough for a swimmer but for a non-swimmer, well, sometimes it takes 6 months to get the swimming proficiency necessary. Shoot, it is easy now, something like 1 min tredding water and 1 min drown proofing, used to be 2 and 2, and way back was 5 and 5; but I guess that was too hard or too many people failed.

 

[Abe_Froman]

once again... (OT, I know.)

water survival is swim qualed. ...Your water survival qual is every 4 years.

In navy circles, I don't doubt it. From those of us who went through the Air Force's water survival course at Pensacola, I can attest to the fact that we were not required to pass any sort of swimming test. If you wanna talk water survival currency, the AF requires the one-time water survival academics, and some form of water survival every 2 years.

There may be some other swim instruction that pure navy guys get at USNA or OCS but it isn't specifically required for flying.

Uhh yeah. If you're in the Air Force and you don't have a job that doesn't require you to fly.... you don't have--er, get to go to water survival.

If only I had taken pictures of the "Big Dog" at P'cola to show the fam. It's pretty neat to see their whole operation down there, complete with a converted mini-flat top with "USAF" on the side.

Anyone have pictures of their parasailing "vacation" in lower Alabama?
...
Man! Did this discussion get off topic, or what?

 

[Papyco]

What I don’t understand is why the AF requires all of its Nav’s who are training with the Navy to pass the swim tests, however wont let any of the AF pilots who are going through Navy Primary even in the water. I don’t understand the double standard.

Shoot, it is easy now, something like 1 min tredding water and 1 min drown proofing, used to be 2 and 2, and way back was 5 and 5; but I guess that was too hard or too many people failed.

I wish. Its still 5 minutes total: 2 minute tread and 3 float. Our class still had a lot of problems with that one.

 

[Ragansundowner]

Swimming

Does everyone go through the same water and land survival course? Or does each service have their own? If they each do their own, which one is usually tougher.

-R.S.