Navig8 direct to an intersection w/ MFD

[flyerc90]

On a 121 flight, can a pilot navigate directly to an intersection, VOR or airport when that intersection, VOR or airport cannot be identified by normal means (nav flag)....but can be identified on a Multi-Function Display by using cross radials from 2 other VORs, and by using the cursor function (gives dist. and HDG)???
There is no GPS or FMS.
Thank You!

 

[Typhoon1244]

Ran into this on the Brasilia all the time. Atlanta TRACON would routinely give you "direct TIROE" on the La Grange arrival. The official answer is no, it's not an approved method of navigation...

...but everybody does it.

Used to drive me nuts as a new captain because you're sticking you neck way out if the FAA gets involved for some reason. And if you tell approach "no, we can't do that" and tell them why, then you've screwed the three guys in front of you that did do it.

I've heard an urban legend that asserts it was actually a jumpseating controller that came up with the idea. He took one look at the Brasilia's MFD and said "hey, you can paint intersections with that thing!" The rest is history.

 

[flyerc90]

Thanks, I have had people tell me both yes and know, and would like some reference to prove people wrong when I try and do it, because I think it works fine! Do you know where does it says that it is not approved...GOM doesnt get that detailed! Thanks

 

[Typhoon1244]

...I have had people tell me both yes and know, and would like some reference...

I don't believe that it's prohibited...it's just not approved anywhere. You can scour the FAR/AIM, and you'll find no reference to what we in the Brasilia called "picto-nav."

Suppose you had a pilot who could successfully navigate to intersections by clairvoyance. Never mind how, just suppose it works. It's not prohibited by the FAR's...but it's not approved, either.

If the doo-doo hits the prop, and the FAA starts combing through everything you were doing, you're going to have a tough time explaining how you were positively identifying that intersection.

Think of it this way: how often does maintenance test the MFD for accuracy in depcting intersections?

 

[Rank&File]

I know of a Beech 1900 crew from Continental Express that received letters of investigation in 1998 for doing that. I don't know what the final outcome was, but its on their record now. Be careful.

 

[EagleRJ]

We have the same capability on the Saab. I'd agree that the official answer is, no, you can't accept any RNAV clearances. If you're filed /A, then that defines what clearances you can accept.

Now, different question: If you are cleared to a navaid that is currently out of range, via "heading XXX, direct when able", are you in compliance with FARs? Since you are IFR and in radar contact, seperation and airspace protection is provided, but inability to fix your position within 3NM is defined as an emergency condition. Are you legal, since you probably aren't using any navaids to cross-reference?

 

[flyerc90]

Well, this is all "hypothetical" of course
Also, aren't radar vectors a legal form of IFR navigation? I didnt think you needed any navaid reference, hence "direct when able"

 

[Loafman]

If accepting radar vectors-when able-direct clearances were illegal, I'd be doing time in Leavenworth by now.

 

[EagleRJ]

Yes, it's done thousands of times a day. I don't plan on stopping- I just have always wondered about if it meets the letter of the FARs.

 

[mackinhoes]

Can you fly heading.....

Man.

I was asked this question on my instrument practical test way back when.

You can fly IFR without any VOR, GPS, FMS, ADF, anything. Radar vectors alone is legal.