Naval Flight Officer time

[Bustamove]

I'm an NFO looking to transition (read retire) back into civil aviation. I've got about 300 hours private time over 25 years and am working towards the needed commercial ratings. Does anyone know how/if carriers, exec jet, freight haulers, etc. account for A-6 right seat and F-14 back seat time? I've heard of NFOs getting SIC time for the A-6 since it was considered multi-piloted even though it only had one stick, and backseaters getting credit in some way, but can't find any hard examples.

A couple thousand hours jelly beaning around the world ought to count for something, I hope. Anyone been here before?

 

[shootr]

Bustamove,

No flame intended here, but I gotta believe that no company will accept your NFO time as flight time. There are some threads on the board addressing FE time, both military and civilian, and the common theme seems to be you've got to be a pilot with controls in an airplane requiring you to be in that seat as a pilot to count it as SIC time. Student time and dual received time may be more vague but I think you're going to have to put in some serious civilian dues for quite a while in order to reach your goal if it's being an airline pilot.

Any former NFO's got a disagreement with my opinion? Maybe I'm wrong and there's a maverick (no pun intended) company out there that'll accept the NFO time. By the way pilots do not count their Special Crew Time unless they were the Aircraft Commander.

Good Luck,
shootr

 

[Slim]

Check out this organization...Army Pilot to Airline Pilot (APTAP). I apologize for not knowing the web address. Type APTAP in your browser. You will find them.

It's primarily run by former Army helicopter pilots, some of whom have moved on to major carriers. They will help anyone (I'm non-rated!), regardless of branch or military duties.

Comair has several of their members flying and has at least two Air Guard C-130 navigators flying (one is an O-6). I have flown with both. I can't tell you how their nav time was counted, if at all.

Have you used your Montgomery GI Bill benefits (Chpt. 106)? If not, people at APTAP can assist you.

Good luck...fly safe!

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

I've got a few thousand special crew hours too. Nobody cares about it, although I put the crew time down on my resume. Does is make any difference? Can't hurt, but I doubt it. Any thoughts, Jim?

 

[ex nav]

Bustamove,

Shootr is correct is his assessment that your time does not count for anything so far as logging PILOT time. I included my time in my resumes on a separate line for to show that I was involved in aviation for throughout my military career.

Take Slim's advice about the GI bill and go get your 737 type after you meet the ATP mins. Get any type of flying job to get you up to the hours requires for the ATP level and get that type. Then, with a little luck, and a great interview, you can join Shootr at SWA. Wish I had done the same (I'm on furlough from a major right now and back in the military after retirement......never say never)

Good luck and hope this helps.....

 

[Bustamove]

Gents:

Thanks all for your thoughts. I wasn't expecting good news but am trying to claw my way out of the information vacuum that 20 years bobbing around the oceans brings about.

I definitely expect to pay some dues, but right now my goal is to get into a good corporate stable and not the airlines. I'm using the GI Bill right now to get through a Multi CFII. Don't know if I'll have any left after that but am ready to spend the money on a type rating if need be after building some hours the hard way, instructing, regional, whatever.

Any thoughts from the wise sages on the best route to corporate?

 

[Krunch]

Unfortunately I believe your time does not count for much if anything... I myself have 500 hours in the backseat old Double Ugly F-4E and I don't include it on anything. I was lucky and escaped to get my pilot wings and 2500 hours of single-seat single engine life... Vipers Rule...

"Krunch"

 

[F18-FDX]

Busta,

Ditto on all the above. I've got an F-14 RIO bud who just got out and is interviewing with ACA, but he has over 1000 hours civilian pilot time, CFII, ATP etc. The only thing his NFO hours count for on applications is "other" i.e., "avaiation-related experience." Hopefully you will make some corporate contacts in your journey towards the applicable ratings who can help you out.

 

[JXB]

Bustamove,

Check you private messages.

 

[JimNtexas]

According to the famous Pinkerton FAR FAQ, there is a circumstance where we WSO/NFO types can log pilot time. It is this: If you are sole manipulator of the controls of an airplane for which the FAA does not issue a type rating (such as the F-4 or F-15E), and you have the appropriate FAA pilot certificate for the catagory and class (airplane, multiengine, land), then you may count that time as PIC for the purposes of the FARs.

If you are in a seat with no flight controls (such as an EF-111 right seat) or you don't have have a mulitengine rating for your multiengine stick time, then it counts for nothing with the FAA.

I have a lot of stick time in the F-4, and a little bit in the F-111 (since of most of my Vark time was Ravens), but I didn't have a multiengine rating when I did it, so that time doesn't count for any FAA currency or certificate requirement.

Even if I had my multi back then, I could not have counted the hour of yoke time I got in the "Faker" Learjet 35, because the FAA issues a type rating for the Learjet 35, and I didn't have one.

In commercial aviation, you don't dare mix in your WSO/NFO time with your pilot time. it just "Isn't Done".

The bottom line, as unfair as it might be, is that our WSO/NFO time counts for very little in the civilian world.

Jim