Nationwide Walkout!!!!

[AA717driver]

Capt. O.--Yeah, I sat there watching it happen. I watched it happen to my friends at EAL. I watched it happen to my friends at PanAm. I watched it happen to me at TWA.

Our rep on the ALPA BOD said we didn't get the big picture. I guess not.

The best I could do was to keep one of our LEC reps from getting a job at Herndon. He was a backstabbing scumbag.TC

 

[Chuck Yogourt]

Yawn . . . .

This thread is about a Nationwide walkout. Since you don't have anything intelligent to add to the conversation, how about a nice hot cup of STFU?

What a freaking moron you are. Are you this stupid in the cockpit? You seem to be in favor a Nationwide walkout so organize and do it. Do you really think with your little worthless in house union that you could actually make some noise? How much clout do you have with both houses on the hill with your union? Let me guess. How about NOTHING. And you want to talk about quality of life and blow your wad on this board and tell me to STFU. I will quit posting when you and your pilot group organize a walkout. Come on big boy, and put your money where your big fat mouth is. Or, you can just STFU.

 

[AA717driver]

Just as ALPA developed into a cohesive, active and effective union after the Gov't. failed to successfully operate the mail routes in the 30's (or 20's), now is the time to use the collapse of the legacy carriers to form a new, effective pilot union/guild.

Even those at the successful LCC's or legacies should have an interest in this as we now know any airline can end up in Ch.11. No one is immune.

What I don't know is how to keep the carpetbagging scum that now infests Herndon from trying to weasel their way into the new union.

Oh well, I'm Pt. 91 now so you guys will have to take the ball and decide if your career is worth the effort and risk (because you know no one at ALPA, the government, the legacy labor unions or big business/management will welcome a new, effective pilot union). Good luck.TC

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

A question from someone new to the industry...... I've seen much bashing of ALPA in general and Duane Worth in particular on this board. If he's doing such a bad job, why can't he be voted out? Surely there are annual or periodical elections? Is there someone else in mind for the job? What qualities are we/you looking for?

I ask the same thing about our politicians. Easier said than done I suppose.

 

[JPAustin]

This was already thoroughly covered, about three pages back. What people are talking about is a grass-roots "I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore" action. Not-a-union-sanctioned-event.

Do I need to spell it out for you letter by letter? Sheesh.

Then why is this thread still going? Sheesh. And no, spelling it out letter by letter would just add to the many more pages of threads to an idea already shown to be futile. Sheesh.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

People like Rez O Lewshin, whoever he or she is, are the embodiement of what is wrong with pilots in this country as a group: backward-thinking, lacking creativity, pompous, self-righteous, hopeless, fearful, the list goes on. Their stale ideas and our failure to take drastic action under their counsel has not gotten us anywhere but where we already are. It has been said that, "If you always do what you've always done, you will always get what you've always got". If we take the advice of folks like ol' Rez, then we take no further action because, in their minds, all possible solutions have already been thought of. To wit: "If a National Sen List was a good idea....then why don't we have it?". A variation of the same question could have been asked a couple of hundred years ago, "If democracy was a good idea...then why don't we have it?" The answer, we know now, was that the ideas and methods of implementation for democracy had not yet quite been refined and a brave group of men and women had not yet unified and laid everything on the line in order to see democracy take hold. That changed with the American Revolution. Well, you know what Rez? A National Seniority List is a good idea and we don't have it yet for many of the same reasons that democracy didn't take hold until the American Revolution came along.

OK Thomas Paine..... let's hear your common sense... In a later post you admit that a national list will have drawbacks.... here is a pragmatic application that you fail to provide. What drawbacks and how will they effect us as pilots?

Thomas Paine's Comman Sense was effective in rable rousing. It got the masses thinking... But when it comes to the pratical application of ideas, it feel short. (in Adams' opinion)

So if your national list is such a great idea please provide a detailed analysis of why it should happen. Why do we needed it (now and not ever before)? Is a National Seniority List and Pay Scale applicable to growth times when jobs are plentiful or only during bad times? What are the cons and why do the pros outweigh them? After which, explain in detail how you will implement it? (you could wait till the good times return, then it will be a moot point. ) Will you start at your LEC, then MEC? Will you start at the national level? How you will educate? Communicate? After you get ALPA, all 66,000 of us on board, how will you get airline management to agree to it? Will you start with the ATA? Will you get an audience with each airline management? Will you go thru the politicians? You mention in your post#80 that you will force management into a National Pilot pay scale. You said-

If every airline was forced to pay pilots at least a national minimum pay scale, then each airline would be similarly impacted.

You seriously lose credibility with this statement. How are you going to force? In fact this is not how the US, its corporate culture and its laws are set up. Each airline has the right to control its operation and compete. I'm sorry but without a real understanding of how it works your ideas will only excite the uninformed.

As far as your democracy analogy. Democracy is a great idea. Thus it was implemented. In other words, the pragmatic legislators of the colonies, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson etc., made it happen. Through exhausting debate in Congress and months of personal persuasion they past The Resolution of the Declaration of Independence.

But your National Sen./Pay Scale list is not a great idea and it is not implemented. Three of many issues with a National Sen list are 1) The same amount of pilots jobs will still be there, except senior guys will keep the jobs longer, and new guys will wait longer to get a job. You are just moving the variables around... 2). If a senior guy loses his job and starts over, does he start at his seniority pay level? If so, then you need to negotiate national rates for seats and equipment. So much for UAL+ or DAL+. It will be average pay for everybody..even in the good times. When a 10 year USAIR pilot gets furloughed making $100 bucks an hour will he make $100 an hour at Chatuagua? Does he get to be Capt.? Is he at 10 year FO pay? (hint CHQ doesn't have 10 year FO pay. They don't even have 5 year FO pay!) Finally, how will you get management to sign on?

Acutally there are some of us that have a vision. A vision of restoring Pride and Integrity to the Air Line Pilot Profession. The problem is in order to do it, 100,000 pilots need to go from ignorant to fully educated.

Only an educated and empowered pilot group can save our profession. I'm not ruling out a National List, but the empty ideas for it don't work.