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My experiences at Ari Ben
- Thread starter dcramer16
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I think they deleted my thread, I'll post it again.
I am going to try to update this every day to tell you about my experiences here.
Day 1
After driving 5 days to get here, I show up early in the morning to get started on my time building. I was told that Mary was gone for the day to come back tomorrow. At least I got assigned an apartment so I used this day to get unpacked and settled in. I was shown the planes, and was pretty shocked. They were nothing like how they were talked about on their website.
Day 2
Had ground school. I was told things like "this gage doesn't work, this _____ works some of the time, that _______ works 70% of the time, this thing has never worked, don't worry about that gage, it doesn't work and you don't need it anyway"
I was scheduled to fly at 2, didn't get a plane until 6pm.
Went out to the plane, lights didn't work, went out to the second plane, it didn't work, went out to the third plane, they couldn't find the keys, finally the fourth plane worked. While flying my maneuvers I saw blue flames shooting out of the exhaust pipe, scared the crap out of me. Was told not to worry about it, this plane does it all the time.
Day 3
Finished up my checkout and was told I could fly that evening. Plane broke down and didn't fly. Since I wasn't flying I made plans to go to dinner with some friends in Stuart. That afternoon the wireless internet provided by the school stopped working. I called and Josh said he would be by at 6 to fix it. I canceled my dinner plans. At 7pm he still hadn't showed up. I called the airport. Someone told me Josh was in the hanger washing his car. At 7:30 called Mary, she said she would take care of it and get Josh over to fix it. At 9pm, Josh shows up with no appologies for being 3 hours late. Fixed the internet.
Day 4
Got to fly a few hours, went ok for the most part. Internet stopped working again.
Day 5
Plane broke, couldn't fly. Still no internet
Day 6
Got to fly 4 hours, went ok. Still no internet
Day 7
Flew for two hours, lost the fuel pressure gage in the plane. We didn't want to keep flying not knowing if there was fuel pressure or not. Internet surprisingly working today.
Day 8
Went to go on a cross country at 10am, gear in transit light stayed on. Had to land. Was scheduled for 6pm. Arrived at the airport and was told the plane was broke down. Only got 0.7 in today. The plane that was broke I was scheduled in at 7am the next day. Called and left a message that because my plane wasn't working and maintenance couldn't get to it until sometime the next day that I wouldn't be in for the 7am flight. Told them to call me if the plane was fixed and I would be right down there.
Day 9
Was scheduled for 7am but plane was broke. Told them to call me if they got it working. They called me at 3pm and told me I was on the schedule for 10pm since I had not gotten to fly this morning. Showed up at the airport at 9:45. At 11pm and waiting for over an hour, no plane and no flight partner. Went home, didn't fly today.
Day 10 (Today 12/13/06)
Called today to complain. I was told they would take care of the situation and from now on would be able to fly every "night". Of course I would like some day flights every now and then, but at this point I will be happy if I can fly at all. In the last 9 days I have only logged 16.3 hours. Came to do 250 but at this time I think I will only do the 125 I have paid for. So far I have only averaged 1.8 hours a day. At this rate it would take a long time to do 125, let alone 250.
I will try to update this everyday or two, depending on if my internet works.
All in all this school has done nothing they have promised. There website says the planes are equipped with GPS, some have weather radar, and some have auto pilot.
Only a couple are equipped with GPS and you are lucky if you get that plane. One has weather radar I think, and it doens't work. A couple have auto pilot and they don't work.
There are days I don't fly. I spend the gas to drive the 20 min drive to the airport just to be told the plane is broke down, sorry, try again tomorrow. When I am able to fly it is only for a couple hours cause the planes stop working early in the flight.
Most of the time I don't have internet service.
The housing is good.
When I call to complain I get something like this:
ME: "Hello Mary, this is my complaint, blah blah blah."
MARY: (interrupting me) "Ok, we'll take care of that, sorry about that, *click*"
I paid for the cheapest time building program I could find and got a heck of a good deal. But when you factor in the gas I am spending to drive back and forth to the airport once or twice a day, and paying rent by the day and sometimes not flying for days at a time I don't know if I am really saving anything.
The planes are in the worst condition I have ever seen. During ground school while being told "this doens't work, and that doens't work, and this works some of the time" I said you kinda need this to be IFR legal. The response I got was shocking. I was told, "Well, you have to use your own judgement" CRAP! You don't use your own judgement, you follow the fricken rules in the FAR's. You don't EVER use your own judgement on the rules, YOU FOLLOW THE RULES, YOU FOLLOW THE LAW!
You get what you pay for here. You don't pay much, and you don't get much.
Like I said, I will try to update this every day or two depending on if I get internet service that day. I am not here to tear down this school and build others up, so I won't mention the name of the last school I went to. I will say that the other school I flew 230 hours, and during all those hours I never had to reschedule, I never had a broken plane, I NEVER HAD A SINGLE ISSUE WITH THE CONDITION OR SAFETY OF THE PLANE.
I am not here to tear down this school, and I am just reporting it how it is. Hopefully these guys will pull their sh*t together so I can get some hours flown. I asked Mary over the phone before I came down here how the maintenance was and how often the planes were down. She told me the maintenance was great and the planes didn't go down very often. Bull sh*t. One day when I went down to the airport 8 out of there 13 planes were't flying cause they weren't working. I also asked over the phone if I would have the opportunity to fly at night. I was told that a lot of the time builders choose to fly at night. Bullsh*t. Night is all I am scheduled for. Don't get me wrong, I like that I have the chance to build some night time but I would like to do a day flight every now and then. These planes are in such poor condition that it makes me nervous to fly them at night.
I think that is all I have for today, will update again as soon as I can.
I am going to try to update this every day to tell you about my experiences here.
Day 1
After driving 5 days to get here, I show up early in the morning to get started on my time building. I was told that Mary was gone for the day to come back tomorrow. At least I got assigned an apartment so I used this day to get unpacked and settled in. I was shown the planes, and was pretty shocked. They were nothing like how they were talked about on their website.
Day 2
Had ground school. I was told things like "this gage doesn't work, this _____ works some of the time, that _______ works 70% of the time, this thing has never worked, don't worry about that gage, it doesn't work and you don't need it anyway"
I was scheduled to fly at 2, didn't get a plane until 6pm.
Went out to the plane, lights didn't work, went out to the second plane, it didn't work, went out to the third plane, they couldn't find the keys, finally the fourth plane worked. While flying my maneuvers I saw blue flames shooting out of the exhaust pipe, scared the crap out of me. Was told not to worry about it, this plane does it all the time.
Day 3
Finished up my checkout and was told I could fly that evening. Plane broke down and didn't fly. Since I wasn't flying I made plans to go to dinner with some friends in Stuart. That afternoon the wireless internet provided by the school stopped working. I called and Josh said he would be by at 6 to fix it. I canceled my dinner plans. At 7pm he still hadn't showed up. I called the airport. Someone told me Josh was in the hanger washing his car. At 7:30 called Mary, she said she would take care of it and get Josh over to fix it. At 9pm, Josh shows up with no appologies for being 3 hours late. Fixed the internet.
Day 4
Got to fly a few hours, went ok for the most part. Internet stopped working again.
Day 5
Plane broke, couldn't fly. Still no internet
Day 6
Got to fly 4 hours, went ok. Still no internet
Day 7
Flew for two hours, lost the fuel pressure gage in the plane. We didn't want to keep flying not knowing if there was fuel pressure or not. Internet surprisingly working today.
Day 8
Went to go on a cross country at 10am, gear in transit light stayed on. Had to land. Was scheduled for 6pm. Arrived at the airport and was told the plane was broke down. Only got 0.7 in today. The plane that was broke I was scheduled in at 7am the next day. Called and left a message that because my plane wasn't working and maintenance couldn't get to it until sometime the next day that I wouldn't be in for the 7am flight. Told them to call me if the plane was fixed and I would be right down there.
Day 9
Was scheduled for 7am but plane was broke. Told them to call me if they got it working. They called me at 3pm and told me I was on the schedule for 10pm since I had not gotten to fly this morning. Showed up at the airport at 9:45. At 11pm and waiting for over an hour, no plane and no flight partner. Went home, didn't fly today.
Day 10 (Today 12/13/06)
Called today to complain. I was told they would take care of the situation and from now on would be able to fly every "night". Of course I would like some day flights every now and then, but at this point I will be happy if I can fly at all. In the last 9 days I have only logged 16.3 hours. Came to do 250 but at this time I think I will only do the 125 I have paid for. So far I have only averaged 1.8 hours a day. At this rate it would take a long time to do 125, let alone 250.
I will try to update this everyday or two, depending on if my internet works.
All in all this school has done nothing they have promised. There website says the planes are equipped with GPS, some have weather radar, and some have auto pilot.
Only a couple are equipped with GPS and you are lucky if you get that plane. One has weather radar I think, and it doens't work. A couple have auto pilot and they don't work.
There are days I don't fly. I spend the gas to drive the 20 min drive to the airport just to be told the plane is broke down, sorry, try again tomorrow. When I am able to fly it is only for a couple hours cause the planes stop working early in the flight.
Most of the time I don't have internet service.
The housing is good.
When I call to complain I get something like this:
ME: "Hello Mary, this is my complaint, blah blah blah."
MARY: (interrupting me) "Ok, we'll take care of that, sorry about that, *click*"
I paid for the cheapest time building program I could find and got a heck of a good deal. But when you factor in the gas I am spending to drive back and forth to the airport once or twice a day, and paying rent by the day and sometimes not flying for days at a time I don't know if I am really saving anything.
The planes are in the worst condition I have ever seen. During ground school while being told "this doens't work, and that doens't work, and this works some of the time" I said you kinda need this to be IFR legal. The response I got was shocking. I was told, "Well, you have to use your own judgement" CRAP! You don't use your own judgement, you follow the fricken rules in the FAR's. You don't EVER use your own judgement on the rules, YOU FOLLOW THE RULES, YOU FOLLOW THE LAW!
You get what you pay for here. You don't pay much, and you don't get much.
Like I said, I will try to update this every day or two depending on if I get internet service that day. I am not here to tear down this school and build others up, so I won't mention the name of the last school I went to. I will say that the other school I flew 230 hours, and during all those hours I never had to reschedule, I never had a broken plane, I NEVER HAD A SINGLE ISSUE WITH THE CONDITION OR SAFETY OF THE PLANE.
I am not here to tear down this school, and I am just reporting it how it is. Hopefully these guys will pull their sh*t together so I can get some hours flown. I asked Mary over the phone before I came down here how the maintenance was and how often the planes were down. She told me the maintenance was great and the planes didn't go down very often. Bull sh*t. One day when I went down to the airport 8 out of there 13 planes were't flying cause they weren't working. I also asked over the phone if I would have the opportunity to fly at night. I was told that a lot of the time builders choose to fly at night. Bullsh*t. Night is all I am scheduled for. Don't get me wrong, I like that I have the chance to build some night time but I would like to do a day flight every now and then. These planes are in such poor condition that it makes me nervous to fly them at night.
I think that is all I have for today, will update again as soon as I can.
Amish RakeFight
Registered Loser
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2005
- Posts
- 8,006
Amish RakeFight
Registered Loser
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2005
- Posts
- 8,006
You should try to get your money back. This place does a lot of advertising and promising to wide-eyed low time pilots seeking that minimum ME time.
I have no experience with them, but have heard from other sources that they put you up in pretty meager housing and the planes are real beat up. Time builders also fly only in the evenings as the day slots are for the career folks.
Well, hope the remainder ofyour stay goes a little smoother.
.
I have no experience with them, but have heard from other sources that they put you up in pretty meager housing and the planes are real beat up. Time builders also fly only in the evenings as the day slots are for the career folks.
Well, hope the remainder ofyour stay goes a little smoother.
.
ParrotheadGTI
Critter
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2006
- Posts
- 139
CA1900
Big Member
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2002
- Posts
- 5,436
That sounds like a really raw deal. One thing in your post really caught my eye, though:
Well, no, you really didn't, but you learned an early lesson in this business: You really do get what you pay for. And if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. The cheapest thing out there isn't always the best deal -- just like cheap shoes that are half the price of better ones, but replaced three times as often. You pay for it in the long run, and then some.
I'd attempt to get the rest of your money back, and if they say no (I'm sure they will), perhaps enlist an hour of a lawyer's time to find a way out of your contract. While I'm sure it has all kinds of "non-refundable" clauses, there's likely a way out if they haven't lived up to their end of the bargain.
After all, their web site advertises "Estimated time is 3 weeks or less per 100 hours." Obviously, that's not even close. I'd print that page out from their web site, as they'll likely change it when your lawyer gets involved. If you used a credit card, contest the charge.
Their web site says, "Our airplanes are maintained under 100 hour inspection programs..." If they're not doing them legitimately, then they're both in violation of the FARs and deceptively advertising.
Tell them what's going on with the maintenance status of these airplanes. If they're as bad as you describe, somebody's going to crash sooner or later.
Keep us posted.
Well, no, you really didn't, but you learned an early lesson in this business: You really do get what you pay for. And if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. The cheapest thing out there isn't always the best deal -- just like cheap shoes that are half the price of better ones, but replaced three times as often. You pay for it in the long run, and then some.
I'd attempt to get the rest of your money back, and if they say no (I'm sure they will), perhaps enlist an hour of a lawyer's time to find a way out of your contract. While I'm sure it has all kinds of "non-refundable" clauses, there's likely a way out if they haven't lived up to their end of the bargain.
After all, their web site advertises "Estimated time is 3 weeks or less per 100 hours." Obviously, that's not even close. I'd print that page out from their web site, as they'll likely change it when your lawyer gets involved. If you used a credit card, contest the charge.
Sounds like a red flag to me. Is every inoperative instrument deactivated and placarded "Inoperative" as required by 91.213? Are any of those items required for certification or by regulation (sucha s 91.205)? If they are, they can't be inoperative. You can't stick a placard on a oil pressure gauge or a tach, for example, and just say it's "inop."
Their web site says, "Our airplanes are maintained under 100 hour inspection programs..." If they're not doing them legitimately, then they're both in violation of the FARs and deceptively advertising.
Once you get your money back, then it's time to make a phone call to the Orlando FSDO and ask for an inspector: (407) 812-7700
Tell them what's going on with the maintenance status of these airplanes. If they're as bad as you describe, somebody's going to crash sooner or later.
Keep us posted.
I'm really sorry to hear about that. Hopefully the rest of your time there will be different.
...somewhat related. We just got into the time building programs...is there anything as the customer you want/need/like/dislike specifically? Obviously lots of inop equipment isn't cool (our autopilot was given to us inop and I'm not sure I can sink that much money into fixing a Century III when it's just a leased airplane), so I realize the concern there...but anything else? Just so I know what it looks like from "the customer's eyes".
-mini
...somewhat related. We just got into the time building programs...is there anything as the customer you want/need/like/dislike specifically? Obviously lots of inop equipment isn't cool (our autopilot was given to us inop and I'm not sure I can sink that much money into fixing a Century III when it's just a leased airplane), so I realize the concern there...but anything else? Just so I know what it looks like from "the customer's eyes".
-mini
Thanks for the posts so far. I am sure the bosses at Ari Ben read these posts, and am really surprised that I haven't gotten kicked out yet, or had negative replys yet.
CA1900:
I can get a refund, or at least I was told I could. But because I can't find anyone else out there that can come close to matching this deal, I'm pretty much stuck here for at least 100 hours.
I don't even think they know what FAR 91.213 is, and 91.205 is a joke to them I think.
Minitour:
From a customers view, or at least from mine, I don't care if the auto pilot is inop, I came to fly the plane anyways. I don't expect to fly 2007's, and I don't even care if they are a little beat up. But have some pride in your business and take care of things. A lot of little things add up pretty quick. I'm not picky, as a customer here is what I want:
1. To be able to fly everyday, and not have to wait a couple days cause the planes are down.
2. Be honest, and if you aren't giving what you promised, fix it.
3. Maintain your planes to be at the very least, LEGAL.
Thats it. I require nothing more. I wish you the best of luck starting your program.
Now, time for my update. I just finished Day 10.
Day 10
Flew from Fort Pierce to Craig with practise approaches at 4 different airports along the way. Went ok there and back. Fueled the plane back in Fort Pierce and decided to then fly to Miami and back. 20 miles into our trip the right alternator died. Had to cancel our flight plan and return to the airport. My flight partner wanted to keep going and said we had the one on the left ok, but I was PIC and told him we were done for the night. Kinda dissapointing, but I haven't flown for the last couple days, so I was glad to be able to get in the 5.4 we did tonight.
CA1900:
I can get a refund, or at least I was told I could. But because I can't find anyone else out there that can come close to matching this deal, I'm pretty much stuck here for at least 100 hours.
I don't even think they know what FAR 91.213 is, and 91.205 is a joke to them I think.
Minitour:
From a customers view, or at least from mine, I don't care if the auto pilot is inop, I came to fly the plane anyways. I don't expect to fly 2007's, and I don't even care if they are a little beat up. But have some pride in your business and take care of things. A lot of little things add up pretty quick. I'm not picky, as a customer here is what I want:
1. To be able to fly everyday, and not have to wait a couple days cause the planes are down.
2. Be honest, and if you aren't giving what you promised, fix it.
3. Maintain your planes to be at the very least, LEGAL.
Thats it. I require nothing more. I wish you the best of luck starting your program.
Now, time for my update. I just finished Day 10.
Day 10
Flew from Fort Pierce to Craig with practise approaches at 4 different airports along the way. Went ok there and back. Fueled the plane back in Fort Pierce and decided to then fly to Miami and back. 20 miles into our trip the right alternator died. Had to cancel our flight plan and return to the airport. My flight partner wanted to keep going and said we had the one on the left ok, but I was PIC and told him we were done for the night. Kinda dissapointing, but I haven't flown for the last couple days, so I was glad to be able to get in the 5.4 we did tonight.
Princedietrich
Retired Starchecker
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2004
- Posts
- 1,437
Dcramer, from the sounds of your narrative, I would say that this school is not only a shoddy operation but an aviation disaster just looking for a place to happen. I realize that the prospect of relatively cheap time building can be a good incentive, but please do yourself a favor and get out of there while your anatomy is still fully intact. Half-arsed maintenance and what appears to be a blatant disregard for the FARs are not only red flags, they're someone's way of telling you to run away as fast as you can and not look back.
Here is my advice, take it for what it's worth. March into that office today, look Mary square in the eyes, and tell her that you want your money back and you're not leaving that office until you have the check/receipt in your hand. Then get on the horn with the FSDO and get the Feds to drop the hammer on this place before someone gets killed.
As a side note, you can look at this night time that you're logging as a mixed blessing of sorts. You need 100 hours of it to get 135 mins anyway, so why not rack it up while you can.
Here is my advice, take it for what it's worth. March into that office today, look Mary square in the eyes, and tell her that you want your money back and you're not leaving that office until you have the check/receipt in your hand. Then get on the horn with the FSDO and get the Feds to drop the hammer on this place before someone gets killed.
As a side note, you can look at this night time that you're logging as a mixed blessing of sorts. You need 100 hours of it to get 135 mins anyway, so why not rack it up while you can.
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