my experience at Delta Connection DCA

[cezzna]

I went there along time ago in 93 but never had these troubles. I was there 8 months went through the MEI and did it all for 25k including housing. I never had any stumbling blocks in my training but did know people who did. Any 141 syllabus is very ambitious and can lead to overruns in costs. When I was there I would guess only 20% of the students could stick to the syllabus times. If they are quoting 45k that sounds high now especially for the junk fleet they still fly. I didn't stick around to instruct and am glad I didn't, back then it was like 7 bucks an hour for the CFI's. The training was good but you don't have to stick around for the foodstamp regional job. I ended up in corporate and am much happier than I think I would be at a regional.

 

[cforst513]

I hate when I here about a school "scaming" students. Anway goodluck with your lawsuit. If you are going to try to advance with your aviation career. check out Ari-Ben Aviator in Fort Pierce,FL. The planes are old but they get the job done. Also definatly the best deal in the country.

cueboat, i'm curious what you're basing this on. did you do your training there or just repeating something you heard b/c they give you 250TT for $33,900. i was recently introduced to ari-ben and i think that there's more than meets the eye here.

 

[bloodwashed]

ucf, I made a smiliar thread about DCA... http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=37609 Not sure if it will help you though.

 

[bobbysamd]

DCA, fka Comair Aviation Academy

Is DCA an operational entity of Delta/Comair, or is it independent with interview deals for its graduates?

Comair has owned the school since about 1988. It used to be known as Airline Aviation Academy. After Comair purchased it, it changed the name to Comair Aviation Academy.

Theoretically, if you train there and instruct there, you can interview with Comair or an associated airline after you have built about 1000 hours.

 

[fletch717]

I went to the Comair Academy in 97-98, I thought the training was excellent. I had my ppl rating. It took 11 months and about $28,000 to get my MEI. I saw alot of YOUNG undisciplined students wasting their money. Party all night, No show early flights, Not studying. Then they wonder why they run out of money while working on the commercial rating. You are paying for an opportunity, it is what YOU make of it. I did not instruct at comair, I went to an FBO and when it came time to apply to the airlines I went to a no pay for training airline (J32's and D-8,s) because I did'nt have the money for ASA,Comair etc. The people that tend to bad mouth the more established academies are the ones that I believe went there and did'nt do all they could do to help themselves.

 

[bobbysamd]

Screwoffs

I went to the Comair Academy in 97-98, I thought the training was excellent. I had my ppl rating. It took 11 months and about $28,000 to get my MEI. I saw alot of YOUNG undisciplined students wasting their money. Party all night, No show early flights, Not studying. Then they wonder why they run out of money while working on the commercial rating. You are paying for an opportunity, it is what YOU make of it . . . . . The people that tend to bad mouth the more established academies are the ones that I believe went there and did'nt do all they could do to help themselves.

(emphasis added)

Fair comments, with which I agree wholeheartedly. I experienced my share of screwoffs when I was a Riddle instructor, which was one reason why I sought work instructing airline students. I never understood how these Riddlers would not maximize the opportunity handed to them. Even airline academy students can be screwoffs. I had one such student at MAPD, who booted his chance to be hired at 300 hours.

I learned from these screwoffs. When I went back to school several years ago, going to the other side of the desk, and taking out loans to pay for it, I fully realized that I had an opportunity to be successful. I made the most of it by studying hard, being prepared for every class, and really applying myself. It paid off. I graduated with honors and a 4.0 GPA.

 

[C152Lover]

Delta Connection Academy is not a good choice

DCA is not what it used to be. Over the years that I have worked there, they have developed the whole "you need us, we don't need you attitude". This is the kiss of death for DCA.

Prices have gone thru the roof, and they take credit for getting you an airline job even if they had nothing to do with it. Remember, if your looking at their job placement claims, half of those pilots got a job w/o the academy's help.

"DCA needs you, you for sure don't need them"

 

[GoingHot]

That is totally insane!
I've been at COEX coming up on 4 years next month. Last year my W-2 was $27.000. Should have gone to law school!

NO WAY! Illegal Alien Dishwashers wouldn't work for that after 4 years, even if they really, really, really loved washing dishes.

 

[siucavflight]

That is totally insane!

Considering this market for pilots, go to medical/dental/law school and earn 10x what you will as a pilot! Then buy your own small jet and fly around all you like! You will be millions ahead by time you retire!

I invested less than 15K in all my ratings (COMM-INST-MULTI, CFI-II-MEI). I'm not sure things have doubled since 1990 when I did this but there has got to be a less expensive way to get your ratings!

I've been at COEX coming up on 4 years next month. Last year my W-2 was $27.000. Should have gone to law school!

I love it, he has it all figured out ladies and gentlemen.

 

[172driver]

I was at CAA in 2000/01 and finished the program with $33K, which was $4000 under their quote. It can be done. I also instructed there for a year and a half, observing exactly what happens to many students.

In my experience, a huge percentage of the cost overrun can be attributed directly to the ability and the work ethic of the student. To get through on budget, one must have some natural talent for flying and studying AND must put in a lot of effort. Most of the students I saw going well over the quotes lacked one of these qualities and can blame no one but themselves. However, there were some that truly got screwed.

Unfortunately, you can be a great stick and a hard worker and still run well over budget. It all comes down to terrible management. CFI's are pressured very hard to keep their pass rate high on the checkrides. As a result, many of them are scared to put their students up until they are completely certain of the outcome. This adds up to excess training costs for the students.

Another part of this equation is that the checkrides at the academy are not equal to a checkride in the outside world.

1. The FAA examiner there has a relationship with the school which provides him a monopoly on the rides. His rate is high for the rides AND the rechecks, and the students have no choice of examiners. When he is scheduled for a slow week, somehow a lot of rides are failed, and a lot of rechecks given. Sometimes, amazingly, three students will fail on the same day for the same area of operation and they will all be piled into the airplane the next day for the recheck...three laps around the pattern, rotating pilots, and $1000 in the examiner's pocket. When the weather is bad, lots of orals are failed for some reason. I figure this guy makes somewhere between $300-500K a year. Nice gig, huh?

I would love to see someone run the numbers on pass rates for men vs. women with this examiner as well. When I left, he was engaged to a girl who started with me as a student. I had the opportunity to fly and study with her and she didn't have a clue. Yet, she passed her FAA rides with flying colors.

2. Many of the 'check instructors' at DCA were very good but you always get a few who are in their first position of power and want everyone to know it. Especially when we are dealing with young people like you find in SFB. Many of them are doing the best they can but have never flown outside the academy environment so they are very rigid and have not a clue of the true intent of the PTS.

Management has to hold on to their 141 cert. by keeping pass rates high. They pass this on to the CFI's through threats, write-ups, intimidation. CFI's pass it on to the students in extra training costs. It can be avoided but often the student has no control over the situation, even if they are hard working and sharp. If you want an instructor change, it's like pulling teeth and indicates to management that you, the student, are the problem and must be worked extra hard.

Bottom line is that students are being held to rigorous standards by the vast majority of the folks who evaluate them. They are not being evaluated by the PTS or for safety of flight. They are being held to what has historically been acceptable at the academy and whatever the CFI's feel is the whim of the examiners at any given moment.

It worked out well for me and I'm glad I attended. I was lucky enough to have flown elsewhere before attending and to have a couple of CFI's from the outside as well. I was also extremely assertive and did not put up with their crap. No, I don't want any review flights. No on the extra ground instruction. Let's do the simulator lessons in the airplane, since costs are virtually equal.

I tried to pass on my concern for cost to my students and got most of them through on budget, although my pass rate was not the best. I used the PTS to determine if they were ready and produced safe, knowledgable pilots. Some of them may have had to take two checkrides but still came out cheaper than if I had pounded them with hours of extra flying. Ground time was free or I let them pay me $10/hr under the table. I didn't mind taking the heat from management over not billing enough time.

I was lucky. Many students as able and hard working as me were not. These people I deeply sympathize with, as they were victims of the DCA system. I will also say that, in my opinion, at least 75% of the people who went way over the quoted costs either had no aptitude for aviation or, more often, did not give it their all. No sympathy for them.

Would I recommend the place? No way. It has gotten way too expensive since I attended. Also, the jobs at the regionals are headed downhill. Less jobs, less pay, less QOL. And there is too much left to chance. I could easily be one of the bitter ex-students, in financial ruin, wanting to sue. Thank you to my CFI's for seeing the big picture and helping me out...