my experience at Delta Connection DCA

[ucf_motorcycle]

I registered for this board because of the huge amount of posts about DCA and I wanted to let people know what it is like there from someone who recently attended. First let me tell you that I started there with 0 time and completed private, instrument, and commercial. I then disenrolled because of financial reasons which I will discuss later.

Here are the positives:
Knowledgable instructors who really know there stuff.
Nice facility with a learning resource center that has free tutors (students getting their CFI's) to help you and give you tips.
Large amount of instructors about 1 for every two students.
In house written and flight exams.
SFB is great airport for instruction and surrounding airports are also excellent.

Here are the negatives:
COST. The price quoted in your contract rarely comes close to what you actually pay. I am sure there are some who paid the contract price but they got lucky by having instructors who are actually concerend with how much you pay.
I personally was quoted $46,000 for private, instrument, comm, multi, and CFI. After 5 months, 180hrsTT and $43,000 i completed the first three. I estimate it would cost me and additional 20-25K to finish multi and CFI at DCA. THis figure is without books uniform or any other personal equiptment.
You may say to yourself that I must have been a below average student, but that was not the case. The fact is the average cost of DCA is more like 70-80K and i have heard of 90-100k. This is the current prices. A few years ago it was definetely cheaper.

There prices on aircraft rental look to be competitive but they make their money in other ways for example instruction time is $56 per hr about twice what other places cost. In addition for every flight you take even before you turn the key you were already charged .5 for instruction time. Any ground instrtuction your CFI charges you for is also $56. Now this is where you save money with some CFI's, who give you free instruction but the Academy frowns on it. Also the simulator time which is a required minimum to get through the course cost nearly as much as the real plane. And another wonderful device they have is a PCATD which is a CPU with a yoke and pedals and an old flight sim program which they charge you over $100hr to use with the instructor in addition to the .5 flight briefing.

Now I would agree with $56 per hour if the CFI's actually made a decent living but they are all making $10per hour and getting paid maybe 25-30 hrs a week even though they are there all day and night.

I had to stop going because I budgeted myself acording to the $46000 estimate. I feel that the contract price is a scheme to get students to attend. I think DCA is charging too much money and promising the world to students. I guess I should say that I am currently filing a lawsuit against DCA for unlawful and deceptive trade practices. If anyone esle has similar experience with DCA give me an email at [email protected] my lawyer would love to make it class action.

 

[CUEBOAT]

I hate when I here about a school "scaming" students. Anway goodluck with your lawsuit. If you are going to try to advance with your aviation career. check out Ari-Ben Aviator in Fort Pierce,FL. The planes are old but they get the job done. Also definatly the best deal in the country.

 

[350DRIVER]

Sorry to hear about your misfortune... This is a major problem that often goes undetected at some of the larger flight schools until one is well into the training program where it is then too late to turn back or pull out. I know very little little about the DCA set up but it has been proven to get many grads to Comair at much much lower flight times than the competitive minimums IF you make it to that point ("if" is the key). This is reason enough for many to take the gamble for a shot at the highest paying regional airline in this industry present day. I think Sharon recently said that those coming in from the outside needed either 3000TT or more or have previous 121 time, not a very easy task for the lower time guys out there who are trying to get that initial break. I think many are sold on this program because they see the gold waiting for them upon completion of the program, easier said than done though for many. I would be very interested in hearing the actual hard number of people who start this program from nothing and who actually make it to Comair. I assume it is not overly easy since I have met a few in this industry that did the majority of their training at DCA and who never had the opportunity to even get the "promised" interview at Comair for different reasons.


I personally recommend the Mesa Airlines Pilot Development program (MAPD) to all those who ask me for advice and guidance, it works and it is proven. It is by far the "quickest" time from 0 hours to the right seat of a airliner, hands down. It is very intense and standardized but if you can make it through, then you are in a very good position upon completion of the program.


good luck to you..


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[ucf_motorcycle]

My problem is not even the promises about getting you a job with the airlines. I knew that no matter what they say its going to be hard and competitive. My issue with DCA was that they straight lie to student coming in about the "average cost" of attended quoting 46K, when it actually costs about 80K on average. Some more proof of this is that Key Alternative Loan which is the company that most DCA students use to finance their training lends 80K and will lend up to 100K obviously because thats what it actually costs to attend.

 

[350DRIVER]

My problem is not even the promises about getting you a job with the airlines. I knew that no matter what they say its going to be hard and competitive. My issue with DCA was that they straight lie to student coming in about the "average cost" of attended quoting 46K, when it actually costs about 80K on average. Some more proof of this is that Key Alternative Loan which is the company that most DCA students use to finance their training lends 80K and will lend up to 100K obviously because thats what it actually costs to attend.

I can understand your frustrations but keep in mind no flight school will promise in writing what the exact amount of your training from start to finish will be, alot depends on the person. This will vary quite a bit considering that no two students are alike and they don't progress to "standards" in the same amount of time. Most schools/programs that I am familiar with will only ballpark the figure $$ (dollar amount). Obviously there are some exceptions like Airman Flight School where I obtained the CFI/CFII since they don't charge per hour, for instructor, ground school, etc, etc, they simply bill you for the "guaranteed course" that they are selling you regardless of how many hours it takes you. I think these set ups are extremely nice and it allows you the flexibility to not worry about any "hidden" costs or fees since there are none.


I don't think it is illegal for a school to quote 46K unless it was in writing that this is a "guaranteed course" for that dollar amount. Unfortunately I think you are going to have few if any options when you have your day in court. I do wish you luck however and may your career desires and dreams come true. As I have previously said, one must proceed with caution and understand that in this gamble there is a chance that the worst case scenario may come true when it is too late to back out.

This "average" cost that is being quoted is obviously going to be on the low end for marketing purposes and it surely sounds better to most versus the high end amount. I strongly suggest to the people I know that they speak personally to former and current students of program/flight school X and see what the actual costs/fees are in reality. Deceptive advertising is nothing new in this industry, been around for many years and ain't going away anytime soon..

chalk it up as a learning experience...

buyer beware...


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[COEX-FO]

I personally was quoted $46,000 for private, instrument, comm, multi, and CFI. After 5 months, 180hrsTT and $43,000 i completed the first three. I estimate it would cost me and additional 20-25K to finish multi and CFI at DCA. .

That is totally insane!

Considering this market for pilots, go to medical/dental/law school and earn 10x what you will as a pilot! Then buy your own small jet and fly around all you like! You will be millions ahead by time you retire!

I invested less than 15K in all my ratings (COMM-INST-MULTI, CFI-II-MEI). I'm not sure things have doubled since 1990 when I did this but there has got to be a less expensive way to get your ratings!

I've been at COEX coming up on 4 years next month. Last year my W-2 was $27.000. Should have gone to law school!

 

[LGAPilot]

Ucf_motorcycle, I totally agree with your assessment of DCA. I was there for my Commercial Multi and CFI’s in ’94, back when it was still Comair Academy. As you stated, the instruction was top notch but the cost was outrageous. I went for just 4 ratings and still went over-budget. What I found most disconcerting was watching some of the mid-lifers leave Comair totally broke without all their ratings. I was 22 when I attended and guys in their 30’s seemed old to me at the time (I’m in my 30’s now There were several thirty-something’s who’d given up lucrative careers to follow a dream, only to leave mid-way through their training with empty pockets.

About a year later, a friend of mine (who I’d met at Comair) got me a job at a pilot factory in OKC (the owner/crook is now in prison) . This place could not have been more opposite Comair in terms of facilities and structure. But it was cheap…they offered fixed price training…literally! You paid one price and flew until you passed your check ride, regardless of how many hours it took. I used to tell my students (the ones who spoke English) that the quality of their instruction would depend on two factors: 1) The individual instructor you had and 2) The amount of effort you put in studying on your own. Looking back, dollar for dollar, I think these little one-price-fits-all mom-and-pop flight schools are they way to go…but only if you are HIGHLY motivated and prepared to study your butt off. I did the best I could when teaching ground school but I always encouraged my students to bring a list of questions to their next lesson.

In summary, based on my experience 10 years ago, DCA is the way to go if you have a money tree in your backyard. That being said, find out what schools stick to their price quotes…or better yet, GURANTEE their price, as this pilot factory did, and go prepared to study hard. You won’t be spoon fed, but you will save tons of $$$ and in the end, you’ll get your ratings.

LGAPilot

 

[SMOE]

This sounds like standard DCA. It doesn't surprise me that instruction went up to $56/hr and the instructor pay hasn't gone up. It was $48/hr when I attended last year for my CFI/CFII. Overall I dropped about $19K and actually finished UNDER estimates. Still haven't figured out how I did that. But, the first $5k went to the profiency course that everyone with outside tickets has to go through before they can start CFI. Very good refresher course but the price was pretty steep.

I guess the only guarantee DCA or any of the big license mills back is that there is 100% chance they will separate you from your money. What you get out of it in return is entirely up to you.

Good luck with the rest of your training. You may want to consider Falcon Flight Center, co-located at Starport FBO on the other side of the field. Its Part 61 but the instructors are excellent, the rental costs are about half of what DCA charges, and the atmosphere is much more relaxed. The emphasis is on the student having an enjoyable, worry free experience.

 

[SDCFI]

Re: Re: my experience at Delta Connection DCA

I've been at COEX coming up on 4 years next month. Last year my W-2 was $27.000. Should have gone to law school! [/B]

That right there is F-in pathetic. I should take home about 20,000 this year as a 2nd year 99 capt at AMF, and I wasn't turbine qualified until mid feb. My best friend is in the same boat, he's also a 4th year COEX F/O so I hope you guys ream Ream and get a killer contract.

 

[huncowboy]

I personally was quoted $46,000 for private, instrument, comm, multi, and CFI. After 5 months, 180hrsTT and $43,000 i completed the first three. I estimate it would cost me and additional 20-25K to finish multi and CFI at DCA. THis figure is without books uniform or any other personal equiptment.
You may say to yourself that I must have been a below average student, but that was not the case. The fact is the average cost of DCA is more like 70-80K and i have heard of 90-100k. This is the current prices. A few years ago it was definetely cheaper.

70-80k seems a bit high for the average though. Too bad people do not care to check out the satellites where you can also get a degree. They are cheaper. The only downside is that the instructors can't seem to log as much time as in Sanford.

I have spent so far around 33-35ish (including everything but Wendy’s and gas) and I am done with almost 1/2 of the CFI. I will be done after 40ish with all except MEI which only comes later. Again, I am not in Sanford which is more expensive but you also get it done much faster. However I have seen some spending a 4 bedroom home with a pool before leaving. But all those persons are walking legends around here if you know what I mean. I could never understand why it takes hundreds of hours for one to realize how much it will be at the end, or to realize the inevitable. Most of the CFIs I know, who did it in Sanford, paid around 50k + MEI. I think that is used to be the average. I don’t know what it is right now but not 70-80k for able people.

IMHO after your private you should have realized how much over you would be. After my private I calculated I have spent 30% over the quote (again at the satellite). That 30% remained 30% for the rest of the courses. Actually I could have saved about 3k on my commercial and about 1k on the private had I not run dry in the last moment right before the ride both times.

Soooo I guess I won't sign up on that lawsuit but I agree it can be done cheaper, and I also agree DCA is not for everyone, but it definitely works for many and yet I have to see superman flying in the pattern.