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My CFI checkride...
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Goose Egg
Big Jens
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My ears are burning...
Hey all,
Interesting thread. Had a similar experience, except with the CFII. But that ride was pretty controversial, and I still have a sneaking suspicion that I was the warm body that the examiner used to pad his pass/fail ratio. It was nearly 9 months ago and I now have that rating in-hand but I'm still a little chapped. I wise man once told me that anyone can fail any checkride on any given day. You and I were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Good news is that the number of times it takes to pass a checkride is essentially meaningless in all contexts other than financial.
-Goose
Hey all,
Interesting thread. Had a similar experience, except with the CFII. But that ride was pretty controversial, and I still have a sneaking suspicion that I was the warm body that the examiner used to pad his pass/fail ratio. It was nearly 9 months ago and I now have that rating in-hand but I'm still a little chapped. I wise man once told me that anyone can fail any checkride on any given day. You and I were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Good news is that the number of times it takes to pass a checkride is essentially meaningless in all contexts other than financial.
-Goose
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Goose Egg
Big Jens
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One more thing...
One other thing that I forgot to add yesterday is the reason that any of us can fail a checkride at any given time; there is no such thing as a perfect checkride. During every checkride, everyone will commit a "bustable" offense. Whether the examiner actually calls us on it depends on many factors, including but not limited to the severity of the offense, the mood that the examiner happens to be in that day, whether the examiner needs a bust for his/her record, how well the applicant has done on their oral and flying up to that point, the examiner's opinion of the signing-off CFI, and so on and so forth. Ahh, the politics of checkrides. It sucks, but that's the way it is.
Good news: If you do happen to bust, you will most likely be given a cake-walk-esque retest, probably only on the tasks that you failed. The point has been made. The examiner has nothing to gain by busting you again. So other than the financial hit of the aircraft rental, additional training, and possible retest fee, a busted checkride is really no big deal
One other thing that I forgot to add yesterday is the reason that any of us can fail a checkride at any given time; there is no such thing as a perfect checkride. During every checkride, everyone will commit a "bustable" offense. Whether the examiner actually calls us on it depends on many factors, including but not limited to the severity of the offense, the mood that the examiner happens to be in that day, whether the examiner needs a bust for his/her record, how well the applicant has done on their oral and flying up to that point, the examiner's opinion of the signing-off CFI, and so on and so forth. Ahh, the politics of checkrides. It sucks, but that's the way it is.
Good news: If you do happen to bust, you will most likely be given a cake-walk-esque retest, probably only on the tasks that you failed. The point has been made. The examiner has nothing to gain by busting you again. So other than the financial hit of the aircraft rental, additional training, and possible retest fee, a busted checkride is really no big deal
acaTerry
SAPM
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2001
- Posts
- 2,393
During every checkride, everyone will commit a "bustable" offense. Whether the examiner actually calls us on it depends on many factors, including but not limited to the severity of the offense, the mood that the examiner happens to be in that day, whether the examiner needs a bust for his/her record, how well the applicant has done on their oral and flying up to that point, the examiner's opinion of the signing-off CFI, and so on and so forth. Ahh, the politics of checkrides. It sucks, but that's the way it is.
I have to respectfully disagree with you here goose. The PTS is clear cut and there is no way that you fail if you meet the standards, but the examiner can fail you if they want. This has nothing to do with someone committing a "busatble" offense. It is simply a matter of keeping the CFI attrition high. I for one remember my CFI initial checkride 11 years ago. Perfect. I did everything in standards without even the smallest of deviation (the proverbial "good day" in the airplane), but still failed. Why? Because I performed a go around. The examiner wanted a no flap soft field landing on the numbers from a short approach. This is not even in the PTS. I did not like the way it was going so I went around and he failed me for "lack of instructional knowledge". When my CFI asked what that was supposed to mean, he was told that instructional knowledge means being able to do any manauver or combination of maneuvers perfect on the first try. Did I fail my ride? No, he failed me. So I had to pay another 225 bucks and do one landing.
While I agree with you that anyone can get busted on a checkride at the examiners whim, I disagree that every checkride has a bustable offense. If it does, then everyone in the world should be failed on every checkride. You meet PTS standards or you don't.
Fly Safe
Terry
I have to respectfully disagree with you here goose. The PTS is clear cut and there is no way that you fail if you meet the standards, but the examiner can fail you if they want. This has nothing to do with someone committing a "busatble" offense. It is simply a matter of keeping the CFI attrition high. I for one remember my CFI initial checkride 11 years ago. Perfect. I did everything in standards without even the smallest of deviation (the proverbial "good day" in the airplane), but still failed. Why? Because I performed a go around. The examiner wanted a no flap soft field landing on the numbers from a short approach. This is not even in the PTS. I did not like the way it was going so I went around and he failed me for "lack of instructional knowledge". When my CFI asked what that was supposed to mean, he was told that instructional knowledge means being able to do any manauver or combination of maneuvers perfect on the first try. Did I fail my ride? No, he failed me. So I had to pay another 225 bucks and do one landing.
While I agree with you that anyone can get busted on a checkride at the examiners whim, I disagree that every checkride has a bustable offense. If it does, then everyone in the world should be failed on every checkride. You meet PTS standards or you don't.
Fly Safe
Terry
Goose Egg
Big Jens
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Terry,
You've been in the game longer than I have, and so I'll have to defer to your greater knowledge on the subject. Perhaps not all checkrides have a "bustable" offense. But speaking from my own experience, I certainly could have failed several of my checkrides if the examiner was being a stickler. Although, I had a very similar experience to your story on the CFII ride. Maybe it was a good experience for me to have that kind of wake up call.
So here's a question for you: If you did actually fly a perfect checkride per PTS, what was the real reason that you busted? I mean, what do you think that the examiner's problem was? Was he just having a bad day, or what? Or was he just normally ill-disposed?
Anyway, darned if I ever send any students to that examiner. He took his shots, now I'll take mine.
Goose
You've been in the game longer than I have, and so I'll have to defer to your greater knowledge on the subject. Perhaps not all checkrides have a "bustable" offense. But speaking from my own experience, I certainly could have failed several of my checkrides if the examiner was being a stickler. Although, I had a very similar experience to your story on the CFII ride. Maybe it was a good experience for me to have that kind of wake up call.
So here's a question for you: If you did actually fly a perfect checkride per PTS, what was the real reason that you busted? I mean, what do you think that the examiner's problem was? Was he just having a bad day, or what? Or was he just normally ill-disposed?
Anyway, darned if I ever send any students to that examiner. He took his shots, now I'll take mine.
Goose
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I guess that's one way to stick it to 'em if they bust ya for something stupid...imagine the look on their face after they hand ya the temp....touche.Goose Egg said:
-mini
PS Not to threadjack, but I hear so much crap about the CFI ride being a bust all the time, just wondering if anyone ever had their CFI ride go crappy and not pink? Kinda wondering if it goes both ways or if it only seems to bust when not deservedly so.
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pilotman2105
Ground control
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2004
- Posts
- 520
I didn't feel that my CFI ride went well at all. According to the examiner, I didn't do 8's on pylons correctly, didn't perform the go around correctly, and wasn't able to recite the hour requirements for a private pilot certificate from memory.minitour said:
There were a few other things. Given this, and in comparison with other people's stories of their rides, I would have thought that I would have busted.
Oh well, I still passed and it is still quite an accomplishment that I'm proud of. Like everyone else has said, it is one of the most satisfying checkrides after you complete it.
I think there are two key things to remember about CFI checkrides:
1. Last I heard, 65% of applicants bust their first time
2. Don't shut up during the flight part, unless the tower is giving you a traffic advisory. I don't think you have to go into the "why" of stuff, but at least go into the "how". In other words, say what you're doing as you're doing it.
1. Last I heard, 65% of applicants bust their first time
2. Don't shut up during the flight part, unless the tower is giving you a traffic advisory. I don't think you have to go into the "why" of stuff, but at least go into the "how". In other words, say what you're doing as you're doing it.
acaTerry
SAPM
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2001
- Posts
- 2,393
Hi again Goose,
"Lack of Instructional Knowledge" was the call. He said whether the maneuver was in the PTS or not (which it wasn't), that performing a go around displayed lack of instructional knowledge.. In other words, if you decide to go around, you are not proficient as an instructor.
Obviously, my instructor was ticked. I think being that this examiner was a satff examiner at another local school, I was a figure for attrition.
Anyway, good to hear you got it. Now just be careful.
BTW...the examiner is dead. I heard he crashed a plane.
"Lack of Instructional Knowledge" was the call. He said whether the maneuver was in the PTS or not (which it wasn't), that performing a go around displayed lack of instructional knowledge.. In other words, if you decide to go around, you are not proficient as an instructor.
Obviously, my instructor was ticked. I think being that this examiner was a satff examiner at another local school, I was a figure for attrition.
Anyway, good to hear you got it. Now just be careful.
BTW...the examiner is dead. I heard he crashed a plane.
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