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Mutiny on Flight 613

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V1cutsrfun said:
Kruschev said it best: "you will sell us the rope that we use to hang you."
Well we aren't selling rope right now, but the ACLU is paving the way for these individuals so they have a protected sanctuary in which they may commit acts of terror. all the while saying they are doing it for your own good....just to make you sleep better at night.

Congrats hook , line and sinker.....:uzi:

Show me some evidence, not some lame idea based on blind hatred of liberals, but actual evidence that the ACLU...to qoute you is creating a "protected sanctuary in which they may commit acts of terror". Please enlighten me. I really, really want to know where this is going on. Maybe then we could alert the authorities.
 
AirBadger said:
Show me some evidence, not some lame idea based on blind hatred of liberals, but actual evidence that the ACLU...to qoute you is creating a "protected sanctuary in which they may commit acts of terror". Please enlighten me. I really, really want to know where this is going on. Maybe then we could alert the authorities.

Apperently you missed the point....Just put your head back in the sand already.

BUT....Remember when your head is in the sand, your A$$ is still fully exposed, so dont be suprised when you get screwed, its your own dang fault. Unless thats of course how you like it.....but don't expect to get a reach around from an arab,,,just a guess

V1
 
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V1cutsrfun said:
Apperently you missed the point....Just put your head back in the sand already.

BUT....Remember when your head is in the sand, your A$$ is still fully exposed, so dont be suprised when you get screwed, its your own dang fault. Unless thats of course how you like it.....

V1

No I pretty much grasped your point...you blame liberalism for terrorist attacks. Gotchya. If my head was in the sand and I didn't care, would I be here arguing the issues? And please don't bring up anymore homosexual references, I really couldn't care less what you do in your personal life.
 
V1cutsrfun said:
Apperently you missed the point....Just put your head back in the sand already.

BUT....Remember when your head is in the sand, your A$$ is still fully exposed, so dont be suprised when you get screwed, its your own dang fault. Unless thats of course how you like it.....but don't expect to get a reach around from an arab,,,just a guess

V1


You sound like someone that spends everyday living in fear. Fear of things you don't understand...which seems to be a great deal. I'd say the terrorists have already "screwed" you.
 
Hi!

ACLU's position on gun rights is interesting. It mirrors my personal interpretation of the Bill of Rights, but I thought this interpretation was not in line with what the founding fathers meant in the Bill of Rights.

What are the arguement(s) that say the ACLU is wrong? I have 4 guns, and definitely don't want the government taking them away from me, but I have no problem with regulating guns.

cliff
YIP
 
V1cutsrfun said:
Apperently you missed the point....Just put your head back in the sand already.

BUT....Remember when your head is in the sand, your A$$ is still fully exposed, so dont be suprised when you get screwed, its your own dang fault. Unless thats of course how you like it.....but don't expect to get a reach around from an arab,,,just a guess

V1

You are just sounding paranoid now.

This country was founded in partly because people wanted to worship freely and not be oppressed for their beliefs. Yet here you are debating against the same principle that brought people to America.

How many people have Christians killed over the course of history? Plenty of atrocities have been commited by people of all races and creeds.

If it is such a problem for you, don't go fly on a commercial airplane. The muslim person sitting next to you paid for a ticket jsut like you did, that allows them the same privelages as you. You said it yourself flying is a not a right. So why do you feel it is your right to pick and choose who flys on the plane? If you ask someone to get off your airplane you better have a better reason than because they look like a terrorist, you better have proof that they are acting strange. It is a good way to open your company to a nice lawsuit. It is illegal to refuse service based on race, religion, age, gender, and sexual orientation.
 
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atpcliff said:
What are the arguement(s) that say the ACLU is wrong? I have 4 guns, and definitely don't want the government taking them away from me, but I have no problem with regulating guns.

cliff
YIP

Ah, but now you must define "regulate." Regulation can be made so onerous that the practical effect is an outright ban on ownership. Let's say you had to pay a $1,000 annual tax per weapon per year, had to take 5 written tests, had no speeding tickets in your lifetime, etc.

Most of the current laws I have no huge problem with, but it is not a big jump into new laws that effectively ban firearms while not explicitely doing so.

OTOH cities like Morton Grove IL have simply written into their city ordnances an outright ban.
 
vetteracer said:
SEE THIS IS THE PROBLEM, the government or the "officials" are spineless cowards cowtowing to the needs of the ACLU and the minority sector. WE THE PEOPLE THE MAJORITY, need to stand up and take charge. Tell our elected officials WHAT WE WANT, not just accept what they decide for us.

...and our president still breaks bread with Muslims in the White House...and we have a picture of him holding hands with a Saudi prince in Crawford,TX....how cute is that???

Tejas
 
skiandsurf said:
I flew out of DEN the other day ( post recent threat). The security lines were terrible. Here is my idea at the "bigger" airports.

Have seperate security lines...

1 line for airport employees.
1 line for wheel chair pax.
1 line for first class pax.
1 line for ALL Foreign looking people and those with foreign passports...(american indians, samoan, mexicans, terrorists)....


...I know it might be considered "profiling", but its time to get real about this problem.

No "MIGHT" about it. It's the way it should be.
 
atpcliff said:
...but I have no problem with regulating guns.

Regulate guns? You can regulate possession of guns and you can regulate importation of guns, but gun regulation is done though various buffer assemblies, fire control mechanisms, bolt and bolt carrier weight, bolt locking mechanisms and gas port settings.

Gun possession is already regulated under various state and federal laws, most of the federal ones can be found under the Gun Control Act of 1968, the National Firearms Act of 1934 and the Firearms Owner Protection Act of 1986.
 
FAA Considering Passenger Ban

WASHINGTON, DC—Seeking to address "the number-one threat to airline security," the Federal Aviation Administration announced Monday that it will consider banning passengers on all domestic and international commercial flights.

"In every single breach of security in recent years, whether it was an act of terrorism or some other form of crime, it was a passenger who subverted the safety systems on board the aircraft or in the terminal," FAA administrator Marion Blakey said. "Even threats that came in the form of explosives inside baggage were eventually traced back to a ticketed individual. As great a revenue source as they have been, passengers simply represent too great a risk to the airline industry."

Under the proposed reforms, the FAA would institute a strict ban on adult passengers, passengers 18 and under, international travelers, and domestic customers. A battery of questions and ID checks will be used to determine whether an individual is a pilot, flight attendant, or federal security officer—the only humans who will be allowed to board an aircraft flying within or headed for the U.S.


In addition, security sensors installed at all gates will sound an alarm if they detect the presence of a 98.6-degree body temperature, and airport-security workers will be trained to spot and positively identify humans in the boarding area.

"Frankly, we've tried everything else," Blakey said. "We've put up more metal detectors, searched carry-on luggage, and prohibited passengers from traveling with sharp objects. Yet passengers still somehow continue to find ways to breach security. Clearly, the passengers have to go."

If approved, the new restrictions would go into effect sometime around Thanksgiving, before the busy holiday travel season. Customers who have already purchased tickets for flights scheduled to take place after the ban's enactment will receive a voucher good for travel to their final destination by bus or train. Should such transportation prove unavailable or inadequate, passengers on most major airlines will receive either a portion of their airfare refunded or a coupon redeemable for a future flight, from which they will also be banned.


"We realize that these new regulations would, for many air travelers, be a major inconvenience," Blakey said. "But we feel strongly that it's a small price to pay to ensure the safety of our skies."


While the ban's primary purpose would be to improve security, FAA spokesman John Gemberling said it would help the airlines' economic future, as well. As evidence, he pointed to the $7.7 billion losses posted by major airlines in 2001—much of which came in the wake of Sept. 11—and the $6 billion increase in passenger-screening costs since the tragedy.


"We've been stretched as thin as we can go," Gemberling said. "New bag-tracking measures ensure that a passenger is on the same flight as his or her luggage, but do little to eliminate the threat of said passenger placing an explosive in the luggage. All bags are currently being screened with bomb-detection machines, but even these $1 million devices are only equipped to detect a limited range of the most conventional explosives."

Added Gemberling: "They're certainly not going to be much help stopping the next guy who wants to blow up a plane with something like a shoe."
Even the stiff measures included in the Aviation and Transportation Security Act, which President Bush recently signed into law, have proven inadequate.
"Improved explosive-detection systems, fortified cockpit doors, more plainclothes sky marshals aboard planes, and mandatory anti-hijacking training for flight crews—none of it could eliminate the possibility of another Sept. 11 with 100 percent certainty," Gemberling said. "This will."
"We've tried every possible alternative, but nothing has worked," Gemberling continued. "For all our efforts, we keep coming back to the same central problem: humans."


Courtesy of The Onion
 
AirBadger said:
While the NSA was found to have broken the FISA laws, our country still needs an organization dedicated to electronic surveillance of potential threats. However, I do believe that these operations should be conducted within the confines of the law. If the government wants to survey citizens without warrants, the citizens should be the ones who get to decide whether to allow that sort of thing or not. And the tracking money thing, everyone knew we were tracking the financial details of terrorists, it's nothing new. Back before 9/11 an article was written about how SWIFT worked with the CIA tracking finances of Bin Laden. Even the administration talked about how they track terrorist finances. If someone doesn't want information leaked, they need to tighten the leash on their employees, because the government knows by now that the media loves to get the big scoop first.

If you google the NYT article from late June you can see that the Bush administration asked the NYT not to publish the article , but they did anyway. The media does love big scoops, however some also love to damage our country given the chance. They have chosen sides on the war and will take every chance to harm this administration. Not all media but the NYT does.

CLAMBAKE
 
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

The numbers don't lie folks.

I love how people love to dig up stuff from 1066 and say, "look at what the Christians did in the middle ages! See they are evil too." Islam was spread by the sword, often by small groups undermining the trust of others before turning on them. Read the history of how muhammed conquered mecca.
 
Icelandair said:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

The numbers don't lie folks.

I love how people love to dig up stuff from 1066 and say, "look at what the Christians did in the middle ages! See they are evil too." Islam was spread by the sword, often by small groups undermining the trust of others before turning on them. Read the history of how muhammed conquered mecca.
This is where the peaceniks above are missing the boat. Its about the suitcase bomb in your towns, stupids.
 
AirBadger said:
Profiling is a terrible idea, not only because its blatant racism, but because it simply tells potential terrorists what exactly screeners are looking for.

Would you be happy if you could be kicked off an airplane because of your skin color? And not by someone with law enforcement authority, but by a bunch of panicking passengers that "thought" the language they couldn't even understand sounded threatening.

We didn't give a $hit about racism during WWII. In 1942, if you saw a German wandering around the docks, you called the cops, screw his little feelings. We are in a war PRIMARILY with fundamentalist ARAB MEN!! (yes, yes some women too)

The day an airliner is taken out by a bald white guy with a southern drawl is the day we start profiling me. If my religion glorified the killing of non-believers then NO I wouldn't be happy, but I'd understand. Especially if my religion condoned killing non-believers.

The only thing more shocking than the ridiculous level of violence coming out of the Islamic world is the genuine indifference shown by most of those Muslims who are not directly involved. I donate to the NRA. If the NRA plotted to blow up a plane I would stop the donations. Not so for many of the islamic type.

I don't claim to be an expert on the bible, but where exactly does it instruct Christians to kill non-believers? O.K. lets say it does somewhere. Do we have legions of radical followers getting in line to carry out the will of god? NO!!

I don't think profiling alone is the answer. I think it is an absolutely necessary component of a overall screening process. We are going to "feel good" this country to it's ruin.

flame away ACLU
 
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I'll second that!! Flame away piss ant ACLU's. Hopefully a plane load of ACLU's will be the next target, now that would make happiness!, exept I'd be the idiot upfront just shaking my head as the bomb explodes.
 
COOPERVANE said:
Do we have legions of radical followers getting in line to carry out the will of god? NO!!
Yea you do, the pro-death penalty crowd is trying to get the death penalty in Wisconsin and there will be premliminary voting on it this state election.
 
FN FAL said:
Yea you do, the pro-death penalty crowd is trying to get the death penalty in Wisconsin and there will be premliminary voting on it this state election.

What does that have to do with Christians? Absolutely nothing. I'd wage the pro-death penalty crowd is pretty diverse. And do you see who is always protesting outside prisons? Yep, Catholic priests and nuns. Another thing you point out is the fact that there will be VOTING on the issue. Islamic terrorists skip right over the ballot box and go straight to kidnapping, videotaping, chanting, then beheading. To even make a comparison between the islamic radicals in the world to the christian radicals in the US is really stretching it. Your bias is showing, FN FAL. Better put it away before you say something really stupid.

I've read enough of your posts to know that you won't rebut my argument, you'll only attack my spelling or grammar. In order to help you with your reply, I've intentionally misspelled words in this email and/or used poor grammar. Fire away.
 
Jonny Sacko said:
I'll second that!! Flame away piss ant ACLU's. Hopefully a plane load of ACLU's will be the next target, now that would make happiness!, exept I'd be the idiot upfront just shaking my head as the bomb explodes.

Boy those four letters "ACLU" really get you guys going. All I said was that they have a right to do what they do. I'm not pro/anti ACLU. But I'd rather have them on my side protecting me than not, even if they are extreme in a few cases.

Profiling just doesn't work. Period. End of story. Security experts, El Al, even guys from MIT know it doesn't work. And by the way, I really hope you don't seriously wish that a plane full of Americans are blown up because they have a different political view than your own. I'm sure you're exaggerating and don't wish that on your fellow citizens, but really, you shouldn't make statements like that.
 
Hi!

Actually, in WWII no one called when they saw a German wandering around, because the one's who saw the German guy were German, and everyone in town was German. Germans made up about 60% of Americans back then.

Everyone knows about the Japanese internment camps, where Americans and legal aliens who were of Japanese descent were forcibly removed to interrnment camps during the war over security fears (luckily they weren't extermination camps!).

The Feds planned to set up similar interrnment camps for those of German and Italian descent living the US also. However, after they realized they'd have to luck up 2/3s of everyone in America, which meant they wouldn't have enough troops for the military, they scrapped the plan. The did arrest leaders in the German-American and Italian-American groups and detain them for the remainder of the war, in their own special camp.

I hope they start the draft soon.

cliff
LRD
 
Deuce130 said:
And do you see who is always protesting outside prisons? Yep, Catholic priests and nuns.
You answered your own question. Priests and nuns are typically Democrats.
 
FN FAL said:
Yea you do, the pro-death penalty crowd is trying to get the death penalty in Wisconsin and there will be premliminary voting on it this state election.

And those same people oppose abortion too, right?
 
V1cutsrfun said:
I recently read in the American Journal that 70% off all muslims are in favor of abolishng the constitution in favor of islamic law, while 54% of the born here offspring feel the same.:angryfire
I can see that to some degree. I recently attended a sporting event and watched different people while the national anthem was played. I was disgusted. Hispanics, some Blacks, and many other ethnicities remained seated while we honored this country. We have banned the pledge from the schools, and do not teach allegiance to our country. This is the end result.
 
PDH said:
V1cutsrfun said:
I recently read in the American Journal that 70% off all muslims are in favor of abolishng the constitution in favor of islamic law, while 54% of the born here offspring feel the same.:angryfire
I can see that to some degree. I recently attended a sporting event and watched different people while the national anthem was played. I was disgusted. Hispanics, some Blacks, and many other ethnicities remained seated while we honored this country. We have banned the pledge from the schools, and do not teach allegiance to our country. This is the end result.
What were you doing at the sports event, worshiping false gods?
 
The US Government can and has allowed profiling in times of war or crisis. They envoke some sort of War Powers Act provision. This keeps people from suing via the ACLU. Once the crisis is over civil liberties are restored and the ACLU can go back to work. I say do it. Profile away! Who else but Muslims have blown up airliners lately or flown them into buildings???

Isreal's jets seem to stay airborne as a result profiling and there must be a lot Muslims trying everyday to blow them up!
 
splatt said:
The US Government can and has allowed profiling in times of war or crisis. They envoke some sort of War Powers Act provision. This keeps people from suing via the ACLU. Once the crisis is over civil liberties are restored and the ACLU can go back to work. I say do it. Profile away! Who else but Muslims have blown up airliners lately or flown them into buildings???

Isreal's jets seem to stay airborne as a result profiling and there must be a lot Muslims trying everyday to blow them up!

are you just stupid or do you like playing it on the internets? the supreme court ruled the japanese detainment as completely un-Constitutional, just like the current right leaning activist SC judges have been doing during this era. Your whole war powers excuse fails to hold water. Besides, I dont see any parts of the Constitution saying anything about being able to suspend any sections during "times of war"

you know what they say about people who fail to understand history...
 
FN FAL said:
What were you doing at the sports event, worshiping false gods?

Dude, Roy Oswalt is not a false god, maybe the anti-christ, but not a false god.
 
I am not for racial profiling. It simply won't work. Did you guy's forget about the US Taliban? He was born and raised in the US. Caucasian. Brought up in an average American home and still a Muslim extremist terrorist fighting against US soldiers.

There are a bunch of these converted American idiots out there with extremist views. How would you use racial profiling in those cases?

If racial profiling is a 100% fool proof solution, I'd say go for it by all means. But unfortunately it isn't.

BTW, the Muslim extremists are a minority. Not all Muslims are extremists. Not by a long shot. If they were ALL extremists, why in the world are we trying to re-build nations like Iraq and Afghanistan and give the majority in those countries back their own countries free from dictatorship, etc.?
 
TheBaron said:
Even though I personally disagree with many of their stances, I'm glad someone stands up to the hypocritical, loud-mouthed moral majority. Maybe some of you inbred rednecks need to read our Declaration of Independence.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.-.
That was put in there so shallow minded people couldn't force their views on the minority...it is the key to the freedoms we enjoy in the US and what sets us apart from the rest.
Sure, I don't particularly like Muslims. Not to thrilled with Jews, evangelical Christians, Catholics, fat people, ugly people, people that smell funny or have bad breath, old people, short people, butch looking lesbians, etc... but it's not my place to judge them.
Vigilance is a good thing. Unwarranted fear is not. If the simple minded among us are allowed to make irrational decisions for the whole, then the terrorists have already won the war.

Can't say I support the ACLU entirely but you make a good point. These individuals are scared Sh$%-less and it shows in their posts! I guess I would be too if I only relied upon FlightInfo, FOX , CNN or any other limited, biased, information source.
 

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