Multi Rating or Not.....

[ibaflyer]

I figured that I would post this question on the board so I could get some opinions form others.

I currently own a Piper Lance (T-Tail) and have about 260 hours in it both VFR and Solo IFR flying. I recenty have been approached by another pilot about purchasing a Cessna 310Q
(a 50/50) deal.

I do not have my multi or commercial certificates; so do you think that it would be wise for me to get the single commercial in my Lance before I look at going into the multi? Do you think that the transistion into the twin would be (other than single engine procedures) difficult or easy to do since I fly a complex plane now?

I know that I could go to a place like ATP and get the multi rating in 4 days but I was told by a multi instructor here that I should just get the rating in the 310. I'll bet he wants to do the instruction and that is why he is saying that.

I am looking for opinions.... so let me tap into that vast knowledge that I have come to know and respect.

Thanks in advance

 

[WrightAvia]

With the growing amount of single engine turboprops in 91 and 135 operations, would you really want to limit yourself should you need to take one of these "bottom feeder" jobs? Any port in a storm...just a thought.

We had guys with 757 types applying, the last time we announced job openings to fly cargo in a caravan.

 

[SabreFlyR]

The very first thing you should do is call the insurance company and see if you could get or afford coverage to fly a 310.

They probably won't cover it for you to do your multi rating in and probably will not cover you once your rated, at the least they will require a bunch of time with an instructor.

 

[Sctt@NJA]

I agree that it would make sense to get your multi rating in the 310 (if you buy it).

You are going to need instruction in that very airplane anyhow for insurance reasons. Might as well kill two birds with one stone, so to speak.

Edit: Just read the above post- yeah check with insurance company first.

 

[sky37d]

I disagree.
ME is tough on planes. Let some one else maintain the engine, and cover the thermal shock cooling. When you take an engine from near full power, to dead stop, hang around there to show what you know, then dive for the ground, to do an airstart, it has to be causing some damage.

Also, no insurance company is going to have rates you want, if you do not first have the ME rating. Get your ME, then they will want 25hrs time in type. That time can be with an instructor, or it can be with an instructor and a bunch of friends.

 

[A Squared]

In addition to what Wright avia said about keeping your options open by getting your SE comm; I think that you will find that if is much simpler and less expensive to get your SE comm first, then get the ME as an add on. A friend of mine did this a few years ago (after the 1997 rewrite of part 61) and if I recall correctly, to do an initial comm in a ME plane, you had to log a whole bunch of "supervised solo", which you wouldn't have to do if you were adding an ME rating to your Comm certificate.

It's been a while, and I may not remember the whole story, but sit down with Part 61 and read the requirements for the Comm certificate. Make a list of what you have to do to get a SE COMM then add a ME rating, and compare that to what you have to do get your initiall comm in a ME plane.

I think you'll se there's an advantage to doing it hat way, especially if you already own an appropriate SE airplane for the Comm checkride.

 

[Riddle momma]

All these posts are good. I actually flew with a 310 owner who needed the "instruction" for insurance purposes. They would not insure him until he had his ME ticket and they wanted 20HR in the 310 with an instructor.
It's also silly to abuse your own airplane with engine cuts and crash landings. Go to the ATP thing or some other ME program, and then take a CFI along in some XC and burn the time off.
Get your SE commercial first, then add on the ME. That way with just one checkride you get the instrument/commercial ME and SE. Cheaper I think.

 

[flywithastick]

I think that guy's loading you up. That's why they made Seminole's, Dutchesses, Apaches, etc.

-310's are nice, but there are generally cheaper planes to build multi time, not to mention all that single engine abuse on your own plane. You going somewhere, carrying more than 2/3 people - that's a differerent story.

I got my multi commercial at ATP several years back. Very good operation back then.

 

[great cornholio]

ibaflyer

if you dont plan on working in aviation and you just want to fly that 310 for fun then why dont you just add the multi engine rating to your private? That would be fairly easy I had a few students do that. If you put a bit of effort in it then it can be done in a few weeks. They had no intentions of flying for work so they just added the Multi engine rating to their PPL just cause they wanted to fly a twin. If you are going to fly for a living then get your comm single first and add on the multi later.

 

[bobbysamd]

Multi rating

You weren't clear about your flying goals. Assuming you just want to fly for fun, you don't need a Commercial certificate unless you want to have it and want to improve your skills, and want to go on to get your CFI to put flying on a paying basis. All you need to fly for fun is your Private. If that's all you want to do, just add multiengine privileges on your Private.

Adding multiengine privileges is not hard. It is primarily procedures. Flying on both engines is the same as a single. You will spend most of the time dealing with flying with an engine inoperative. Places like Sheble train for a multi rating in five hours or less. To do it right you need about ten hours. The key to getting a multi in minimum times is preparation. Spending hours of dry time in the airplane rehersing the procedures will pay off. You will need to know the airplane's systems well for the oral part of the practical.

If you plan to go for the Commercial, you can do it either by getting your single-engine Commercial first or Commercial multi first. In your case, since you own your own Lance, if it were me I'd get the Commercial single first in your airplane. You are familiar with it, and all you'd have to do is hire an instructor to train you. It'll be cheaper. At that point you could get in the twin and get your multi. If you were to do that, you could do it in a Seminole. A Seminole would be an easy transition from your Lance.

Hope that helps. Good luck with your training.

 

[Dan CFI/CFII]

It would definately be easier to get the single engine commercial, then add the multi (or just add the multi to your private).

As to doing it in a 310--that really depends on the instructor. You are probably right, the CFI who told you to do it at home probably just wants to add those numbers to his logbook. But if you get someone that is good with the Twin Cessna, there's no reason not to. I've done two Commercial Multi Instrument guys in a 310 this year, and am doing a third right now . These guys all had less than 150 hours in airplanes (but a few thousand in helicopters) and they didn't have too much trouble with the 310. We've also watched the engines like a hawk to make sure we weren't doing real damage to them--and as long as your CFI is careful, they won't take the beating that people are making them out to get.

But the real key is to find someone who knows Twin Cessnas, and who knows how to treat a lady (but replace the word "lady" with "airplane"). Even if you went and got your multi someplace else--you really ought to do single engine work in the airplane if you are going to fly it--it isn't exactly a Seminole, neither is it a 421...

Just my .02...

Dan

 

[SabreFlyR]

"as long as your CFI is careful, they won't take the beating that people are making them out to get."


You start pulling engines on a 310 and you are guranteed to be buying a or some cylinders real soon, I don't care how careful you are.

Those Continental IO-520's, for that matter all of the 470 and 520 series, both turbo and non turbo will crack a head even when you think you are being careful.

Do yourself a favor go get in a Seminole or Duchess, those little Lycomings can take abeating and keep on ticking. Then fly and enjoy the 310 knowing you didn't do any harm to your engines.

 

[sky37d]

I have a friend who did his multi in his plane, and the instructor did a simulated engine failure on takeoff. Toasted the turbo. Became a real problem, right now.

Re-iterating what others have said, you don't make clear why you want the commercial. If I had tons of money, I'd get a commercial so I could fly an Albatross. If there is no intent of making a living, the cost of a commercial will not be offset by reduced insurance rates. More flight time will do that.

I went to ME school in Dallas, a place that advertises in Trade-A-Plane. They use BE-95's and had a cockpit, for ground instruction. Total time was 8 hours, including check ride. Less than a week, and I was done, and the insurance company was happy.

 

[ibaflyer]

Yea, I guess that I was not very clear earlier. I just wanted to know if everyone thought it would be a good idea to get the commercial first in my Lance and then if I decide to get into a twin, I will already have the commercial and I can make the multi-check ride a Multi/IFR/Commercial ride and get them all out of the way a one time.

As for the future? I guess I do not know what it has in store for me. If a chance came up that I could maybe fly for a living (instruct or corporate) I may take a shot at it. Sure would beat what I do now. (Funeral Director/Embalmer) but if there is one thing about my current occupation.....it is recession proof!

 

[great cornholio]

I would say unless it is really strong that you are going to do something with the commercial then it will pretty much be a waste of money for you. Since it sounds like you pretty much just want to fly for fun then I say the best plan would be to just add the multi to your private. It only takes a little bit of flight time and can be done easily in a few weeks or a month if the wx sux. But if you are definately set on getting your commercial then go ahead and get the single first in your lance no question about it. First off its your plane so you know how it "acts" and you know the systems already. Second since its your plane it will save you money. Good luck with whatever you decide man. Yeah Id say your job is pretty safe. Definately more secure than flyin for now.