Multi-engine training

[BradG]

I am just finishing up my commercial, and i am planning to go to Dallas in mid-March to get my multi-engine. Has anyone ever heard of a company called Multi-Engine Training, based at Redbird that does training in TravelAirs. It is a guaranteed at $795 + $295 for the Checkride. Anyone have any comments on this? I have an opportunity to do the multi in a Dutchess here (KS) for 2x the price of fuel. I dont know which to do. Any ideas would be appreciated

 

[bigD]

I guess it really depends on what you want to do with the rating. I'd imagine that you'd want to build time after you get it. That place in Dallas sounds like a good deal, however don't expect to be able to rent anything in the Kansas area with only the 10 hours or so of twin time that you'd have after finishing the training. You may be able to solo the Travel Airs in Dallas because you got the rating there, but that doesn't do you much good when you live somewhere else.

On the other hand, if you train in the Duchess close to where you live, you might be able to solo the plane right afterwards, or maybe with a minimum amount of additional dual. The school where I rent a Duchess requires 20 hours. That way, you have a twin to fly after you get the rating. And at twice the cost of gas - that's a great deal. I'm chunking out $140 per hour to fly the things!

 

[Wolverine]

I wonder where did you get that information about the school. I have not heard the name like that at Redbird. However, the price range is the "All ATP" (web site: http://www.allatps.com/) operated out of Grand Prairie, Texas. Which is an "Add On" program, not training or teach you anything but get your money. Do some research on this. I've read a lot of bad points about this company on this new message board (and the old one).

Here is some infor about RBD on http://www.airnav.com/airport/KRBD
http://www.flash.net/~lrn2fly/page3.html

If you interest in training in Dallas. Addison (ADS) have few Flight School (Part 141) that doing pretty good in maintenance.
http://www.monarchair.com/ with the price of Beech Duchess
for $165 per hour. Pretty expensive, eh?

Anyway, good luck on searching. If you wanna know about flight school around North Texas. Welcome to send me a private message.

 

[ILLINI]

I got my multi rating at one of those places like the one you're talking about in Dallas. Guranteed rating for $1200 or something like that. My problem was that it was a 6 hour drive from my home and I couldn't rent it after I got the rating. On top of the cost of the rating, I had to pay for a few more hours with an instructor at a local airport for a check out in their twin. Pretty expensive! If you want to build some time after you get the rating, don't make the same mistake I made.... Get your rating at a place nearby and that will let you rent the thing when you are done with your training. Saving a few bucks intially might turn into spending alot more down the line.

 

[Jump Pilot]

I think the guy's name at RBD is Clyde Fredrickson. The number in the Big D yellow pages is 214-330-7811. I know a couple of guys who did there ME there.

You can also try Flightstar and Henley's at ADS. Flightstar has a Baron and Henley's has a Seminole (I've flown both.)

The logic of doing your training where you will rent from is right on. The places at ADS want I believe 10 hours of dual or 10 hours make and model plus 50 ME total before they tun you loose. If you do your training where you will rent, you can at least count your training hours towards those requirements.

Blue skies.

"Why jump out of a perfectly good airplane? You haven't seen our airplane."

 

[avbug]

There are no perfectly good airplanes. Jump them all.

 

[aero99]

I don't know what school in Redbird your looking at, but there is almost always an ad in the paper here for high time MEI's wanted at a school @ Redbird. Might want to make sure the school your looking at there has enough instructors.

Monarch is a good school, good people, descent equipment and easy to get to. Many hotels and resturants in the area and nice area of town. The Beechess is in good shape. I should be flying her down to Austin a few times over the next month or so.

Good luck.

 

[bobbysamd]

Multi rating

The truth of the matter is you probably won't be able to rent ANY multi solo after you get the rating. Insurance is like that.

I'd stay at home and get the rating. You'll save money in the long run. Think about getting your MEI in the same airplane as your initial CFI. Your MEI training will count as multi and multi PIC.

That's my .02. Good luck with your training.

 

[Geigo]

Brad,

I assume the Dutchess your talking about is at KCAC. It's been about a year since I asked about the requirements for rental, but with 300 TT I don't think that you have enough time to take it solo. If your interested I know of someone with a NICE PA-30 you can get your rating in for $135/hr dual/wet. Note it does include the instructor for that price. Also if your trying to build time you can do Angle Flights for something like $110/hr. Like most everywhere else no solo, but a great aircraft at reasonable prices. A two hour drive for a couple weekends would be better than hotel & all in Dallas. If your interested PM me and I'll get you the info.

Geigo

 

[ILLINI]

bobby et al.:

There are a few FBOs that will let you solo their twin with relatively low time. I rented a Dutchess from Luman Air in Aurora, IL (KARR) for $160/hr wet... yeah a little steep if you ask me, but I soloed it with only about 20hrs multi. Anyway when I was there a check out consisted of 1.5-2 hrs with one of their instructors as long as you had I belive 500 TT and 50 multi. If you had less, then they made you go through a 10 hour check out with their instructor. With the instructor it was $190/hr wet which meant almost $2,000 for a check out!

A friend of mine rented an Aztruck from Shaumburg, IL (06C) for I think $130/hr wet. His check out was maybe 1.5 at most with one of their instructors. I don't think they required you to have "X" amount of multi time before they let you solo it either because he only had maybe 30hrs multi when he soloed it.

There are a few places out there that will let you solo their twins with relatively low time, but you may end up paying the premium for it like I did for the additional check out. That is why I say to get your multi and even your MEI from a place that will let you solo it after you've gotten your ratings from them. This is one mistake that i've made that I hope others can learn from!!!

 

[bigD]

Illini's situation is basically the same as mine. The Duchess is $140 an hour. You need 50 hours in type and a regular 1-2 hour checkout, or in lieu of that, 20 hours of dual from the school. I got my rating there, and basically bought the rest of the time up to 20 hours. The other requirements are 300TT and an Instrument rating.

There's also a Baron 58 for rent too, but then you're looking at 50 hours in type with 1000TT and 350 multi. No way around it. So even if I had the 1000 and 350 requirement, which I don't, I'd have to spend over $13K to get that 50 hours (at $265 per hour w/MEI). Ouch! Lots more plane than a Duchess, though.

Oh well, when you're building time, I guess you're not looking to get anywhere fast anyway.

 

[jaybird]

Geigo

How did it go? The interview that is.

 

[bobbysamd]

ILLINI

Very interesting. $160/hour for a twin really isn't out of line at all.

Why rent the Baron when its mins could just about get you hired at a commuter?

Just the same, I know from my experience the places who will rent multis altogether, much less solo, are still few and far between. And, also, you still have to build up the time. Unfortunately, a five-hour multi from Sheble's won't cut it for insurance purposes.

An observation on the above. At schools, MEIs with only a few hours of multi are turned loose with students who have less, or even more time, than the instructors! Compare that with trying to rent a multi and you'll see the irony.

Have a good one and good luck in building multi time.

 

[Captain Over]

The Travelair place has an ad in the back of at least Flying magazine, maybe others. A guy I instruct with went there over Christmas. Got his Multi Comm in something like 4 hour total--including the checkride. He did have some multi logged before he went, but not much--and it was a year since he last flew a twin. Anyway, if you do the math, the ticket cost him something like $250 /hour. Pretty steep, but he got the ticket and it was quick.

Hope this helps.

 

[BradG]

Thanks for all the advice everybody. I think i am going to skip the Dallas thing and do it here in the Dutchess. I have been told by a few people that the examniner in Dallas likes to bust you on your first $300 ride, just so you have to pay again. Sounds kinda fishy to me, plus i would like to get the rating with more than 4 hrs. Anyway, i appreciate the help.

 

[bigD]

Does the thought of a 4 hour Multi-Comm (and I'm assuming instrument) pilot scare anyone besides me?

I dunno about you guys, but I didn't start feeling at home in the Duchess until at least 10 hours. I know there's a wide range of student skill out there, but crap - 4 hours doesn't seem like a lot of time.

I guess the insurance companies agree with me.

 

[bobbysamd]

Low multi training time

I agree, but just a comment. I had an instructor friend at Riddle who did not have his multi. Of course, he wanted into Riddle's gold mine of multi time. So, he went to Sheble's one weekend and came home with his multi. He might have flown four hours max in their Duchess, including checkride. It was a means to an end and very smart, because Riddle upgraded him to MEI on its nickel. So, he got the additional multi training he needed and time in the airplane without having to pay for it. He had to sign a training contract.

Another old aviation adage: Get your ratings on the other guy's nickel.

 

[bigD]

Oh I agree completely Bobby. If I were in your buddy's position, I would have done exactly the same thing. It wasn't my intent to attack anyone who gets their ticket via one of these schools - I was just looking of my situation and thinking, "Man, at 4 hours, I was just finishing my VFR maneuvers and single engine pattern work, let alone all the IFR work." =)

Amazing. And I'd think a Travel Air is more airplane than a Duchess, at least in the sense that it's quite a bit older.

 

[bobbysamd]

Traveler

Sure, it's more airplane. I had a student who had one of his own, although he flew the Riddle Seminoles for his flight courses.

 

[jetdriven]

clyde fredrickson is the instructor and don scott is the examiner. I got my multi and my MEI there. great school. Reality check here, you arent going to build multi time renting twins. it isnt going to happen at 140-250$ per hour.. So just get the rating as cheaply as possible then build it by instructing or riding along with others.
if you fail the ride you get an hour in the travelair again for free, plus the checkride is half for the retake, which makes it out to be 125$. they want you to pass, i had a guy when i did my mei he had 200tt and ZERO multi. passed 1st try. the hampton inn gives you a 40$ room, team up with another guy and you split the room and each get 100$ off the rating. get the rating for the 1000$, dont fall into the trap of 190$ multi time and a hungry instructor who's favorite line is "one more flight and I'll sign you off". BTW i taught two guys in our b55 baron and they got their ratings in less than 5 hours each. it can be done..