MOXY...Neeleman's latest start up

[bafanguy]

While start ups are pretty risky, they're entertaining to watch. Neeleman has pretty good credibility in this area so he's particularly worth watching. Many articles have come around about Moxy and those linked below aren't new but contain a couple of intriguing quotes.

Notice he alleges "innovative approaches" to pilot recruiting. I have no idea what that means but thought all approaches to pilot recruiting had already been tried.

"Neeleman promised 'innovative approaches' to recruiting pilots'..."

https://skift.com/2018/09/21/jetblue-founder-sees-his-startup-as-tech-company-that-happens-to-fly-planes/

And notice what worries Neeleman the most and it's NOT getting pilots for Moxy:

"So what worries you the most?
Getting the planes."

JetBlue Founder David Neeleman on How New Airline Moxy Will Change the Way We Fly

David Neeleman has worked for or founded six airlines, and also created a software company that developed the first e-ticket.

www.cntraveler.com

 

[bafanguy]

A WHOLE lot can happen in ~2 years:

“Neeleman said GECAS will deliver the first A220 in April 2021, allowing Moxy to start flying from May.”

Neeleman: First Moxy A220s to come from GECAS in 2021

Planned US startup Moxy will have “lots of flexibility” with the Airbus A220-300 that would allow the airline to go international, David Neeleman says.

atwonline.com

 

[belchfire]

I don't know much about TAP (outside that they use an uncomfortably short seat pitch in coach between Lisbon and Cape Verde!) but I'm not sure I'd want anything to do with an outfit started by the same guy that started Jet Blue. Do we really need another crappy low-cost carrier?

 

[bafanguy]

Do we really need another crappy low-cost carrier?

Yes...yes we do.

 

[belchfire]

Apparently you haven't been trapped in the last row in one of Untied's new 737 sardine cans for 6 hours with the "slimline" seats...you know, the ones with just almost enough padding to cover up the rivets. Hell, if you put an illegal alien in one of those seats for 6 hours on the ride back to where ever they came from someone would charge you with crimes against humanity!

There's a "Top Ten" list in here...

Top Ten ways that Southwest is better than the so called "Legacy" airlines

1) They don't pretend that they aren't a low cost carrier!

2) A surly attitude is not a requirement to be a SWA Flight Attendant!

3) No bag fees. Not for checked baggage, not for the overhead!

4) You know you have to bring your own sandwich on SWA and that's way safer than taking a chance on the $9.00 "snack" on another airline!

There's a start...

 

[bafanguy]

Apparently you haven't been trapped in the last row in one of Untied's new 737 sardine cans for 6 hours with the "slimline" seats...

belch,

You're right about that ! I can't remember the last I set foot on anybody's airplane. I loathe the airport and the endlessly creative ways airlines abuse the paying public. I'll drive 10 hours to avoid flying one hour. Kinda sad from someone who spent 35 years flying for a living.

Mostly my reply was just smart arse but I guess I'm always glad to see more jobs for those who might be interested. The public can vote with their wallet on each airline. The empirical evidence suggests the public will tolerate any level of abuse and mistreatment, short of certain death, for a cheap ticket. Hard to feel sorry for them.

 

[belchfire]

Yeah, I'm approaching old fart status and can recall when Air Travel was civilized and people actually dressed up for the occasion, when even on a 45 minute flight there was a full meal service and when a family of four or five could actually travel together on passes. Even big airports were all business and had enough seating at a gate for whatever kind of airplane used it, unlike now where seating has been replaced by two starcrap's coffee dumps, a HMS Host regurgitorium of some ilk and some kind of grossly overpriced book store where you can pay $10 for a $5 paperback and water (the most plentiful chemical compound on Earth) is priced at about $4.50/liter. But at least they have thirty seats at the gate that serves the 75 seat RJ so that 45 displaced persons with nowhere to sit can block the too narrow passageway to a connecting gate that is about a 2K run away!

Airports have become cheesy tourist traps and you aren't missing a thing by staying away from them and sometimes when passengers are deplaning it looks like a fire drill at a mobile home park...

Any more I think that Greyhound is probably more reliable and Amtrak probably is more comfortable. If I actually wanted to go to Hawaii for vacation I think I'd look into going by ship instead of paying for abuse from beginning to end.

More jobs is kind of nice but in the long run they're going to have flight crews down to walmartian wages before we all get replaced by automation...just look at how well that works out on the 737-800Max!

 

[bafanguy]

belch,

I hear ya. Add in the jack-booted Smurfs and the whole experience is no go for me. At some point, circumstances will force me onto an airplane and it's a day I dread. Trains are a pretty civilized way to travel especially if you get one of those private cabins.

The only thing that makes Neeleman interesting to watch is his history. JB isn't a terrible place to work apparently. Can he do it again with Moxy ? Stay tuned.

 

[belchfire]

Jack-booted Smurfs...

OMG you just made my day!



The thing that is so sad to me is that as offensive as the very fact that they even have to exist in this world is, they aren't as bad as the airlines themselves have become.

United has aircraft on it's certificate that can make the trip from KLAX to PHNL with a full load of passengers and baggage but instead, on many flights they are using 737 variants that will always be the fracking regional jets they were designed as back in the '60's when four engine jets were flying that route. I don't care how much fuel they can put in a 737, trapping a human being in confined spaces like that for six or ten hours is inhumane. Planing an aircraft on a route segment that it is known to lack the capacity to complete on a regular basis is incompetent and criminal.

They had a whole bunch of trials at a place called Nuremburg about how humans should be treated and a bunch of azzholes got hanged. The only fact separating Nazi War Criminals from modern airline management is that none of the Jews (or Christians, Gypsies or anyone else deemed undesirable) paid to go to the showers...

It will be interesting to watch what happens for sure. JB did do that passenger bill of rights but I don't know if Neeleman had anything to do with that. The culture has changed and passengers seem to be regarded as self propelled biohazards rather than paying customers and the whole reason that any given airline exists.

Delta has taken some turns for the worse most recently. When there is no aircraft at the gate when departure time comes you aren't kidding anyone-there is going to be a delay regardless of how optimistic the dispatchers are! Oh yeah, and who in the heck do they think they are fooling? Oh look, I'm in boarding zone 3!

That sounds pretty good. Until you stand there in line while about four groups who are too special to be relegated to having a "boarding zone" are called to board...seriously Delta? How long do you think it takes people to catch on that if there's no machine on the jet-bridge half an hour before departure time there's going to be a delay (er, since DC-3's were flying the line, dumbazzes-you're not fooling anyone!) or that your gate agents call out a bunch of "special" people before they get to boarding zone one?

 

[bafanguy]

Uh, what ?

David Neeleman has started the process of setting up another airline in the US in addition to the planned Airbus A220 operator Moxy. Neeleman is in the process of securing another air operator’s certificate (AOC) for the carrier that will operate a fleet of Embraer E1 E195s.

https://atwonline.com/airlines/neeleman-establish-another-us-airline-used-e195s?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+AtwDailyNews+%28ATW+Daily+News%29

This 2nd link says it'll be 30 airplanes in a combination of scheduled and charter operations:

Neeleman plans jump on Moxy with outgoing Azul E-Jets

Moxy is set to start flying in 2021, but it looks like its founder is advancing that plan.

theaircurrent.com

 

[bafanguy]

More indication he's just getting an earlier start for Moxy:

Neeleman eyes ex-Azul E195s for Moxy launch

David Neeleman has said that his new American start-up tentatively named Moxy Airways (Salt Lake City) could launch ahead of the original plan using second-hand ex-Azul Linhas Aéreas Brasileiras (AD, Sao Paulo Viracopos) E195s, Bloomberg has reported. Speaking during the delivery ceremony of...

www.ch-aviation.com

 

[bafanguy]

This is the first mention I've seen of Moxy and pilot supply:

“One of our challenges there is an acute pilot shortage in the U.S.,” says Trey Urbahn, who’s involved with Moxy and also works closely with Neeleman at TAP as the Portuguese carrier’s chief strategy officer. He notes that new rules adopted by the Department of Transportation following the Colgan Air crash in Buffalo in 2009 require that all commercial pilots in the cockpit have a minimum 1,500 hours of flying time; previously, a co-pilot could begin with as little 250 hours. “The result is that there are fewer people entering the profession,” he says. “With an increasingly small pool, we need to have competitive pilot salaries to attract them from regionals,” where pilots typically begin their careers. Moxy is “looking at creative ways to create our own pilot pool,” Urbahn says, such as establishing an in-house training program. “You have to get people really early in their careers, when they first decide they want to be a pilot.”

All of the New Details We Have on JetBlue’s Founder’s New Domestic Airline

David Neeleman, the founder of JetBlue, is starting another U.S. airline. Here are all the new details we know.

www.cntraveler.com

 

[bafanguy]

Found this statement about Moxey on another forum. Sounds like things are moving a bit:

"Hiring has begun. Didn't sound like they're looking for line pilots at this point, mostly management, and those to help start the airline. Could be wrong on that as it's very early still. Been swapping emails with one of the executives."

 

[belchfire]

Interesting...I don't know how many of the ASA or Express Jet types are on the street still but he missed out on a glut of experienced RJ people. The thing is that many of them have been around a long time and well beyond malleable to fir the cookie cutter any start-up is going to want to stamp their employees out of.

 

[bafanguy]

Interesting...I don't know how many of the ASA or Express Jet types are on the street still...

My guess would be none.

 

[maru657]

Jack-booted Smurfs...

OMG you just made my day!



The thing that is so sad to me is that as offensive as the very fact that they even have to exist in this world is, they aren't as bad as the airlines themselves have become.

United has aircraft on it's certificate that can make the trip from KLAX to PHNL with a full load of passengers and baggage but instead, on many flights they are using 737 variants that will always be the fracking regional jets they were designed as back in the '60's when four engine jets were flying that route. I don't care how much fuel they can put in a 737, trapping a human being in confined spaces like that for six or ten hours is inhumane. Planing an aircraft on a route segment that it is known to lack the capacity to complete on a regular basis is incompetent and criminal.

They had a whole bunch of trials at a place called Nuremburg about how humans should be treated and a bunch of azzholes got hanged. The only fact separating Nazi War Criminals from modern airline management is that none of the Jews (or Christians, Gypsies or anyone else deemed undesirable) paid to go to the showers...

It will be interesting to watch what happens for sure. JB did do that passenger bill of rights but I don't know if Neeleman had anything to do with that. The culture has changed and passengers seem to be regarded as self propelled biohazards rather than paying customers and the whole reason that any given airline exists.

Delta has taken some turns for the worse most recently. When there is no aircraft at the gate when departure time comes you aren't kidding anyone-there is going to be a delay regardless of how optimistic the dispatchers are! Oh yeah, and who in the heck do they think they are fooling? Oh look, I'm in boarding zone 3!

That sounds pretty good. Until you stand there in line while about four groups who are too special to be relegated to having a "boarding zone" are called to board...seriously Delta? How long do you think it takes people to catch on that if there's no machine on the jet-bridge half an hour before departure time there's going to be a delay (er, since DC-3's were flying the line, dumbazzes-you're not fooling anyone!) or that your gate agents call out a bunch of "special" people before they get to boarding zone one?

I’ve got to agree. Riding American or United today is painful and frustrating. Unless, your 1st class. Had a young friend ask about flying for Norwegian or Emirates. I told him if they treat their customers better, jump.

 

[bafanguy]

Is Neeleman on the verge on a launch ?

“Breeze Aviation will locate their corporate headquarters in Salt Lake, Utah. The company plans to create 369 jobs in the next five years.

Breeze Aviation plans to unveil an as-yet-unnamed low-cost carrier in the new year which will provide flyers with convenient non-stop service from secondary airports.

The company was founded by David Neeleman…”

Breeze Aviation Locates Headquarters in Salt Lake, Utah - Area Development

Breeze Aviation will locate their corporate headquarters in Salt Lake, Utah. The company plans to create 369 jobs in the next five years.

www.areadevelopment.com

 

[bafanguy]

Bits & pieces re Moxy:

“There is, however, one outstanding issue with basing an airline in Utah. There are fewer executives with airline operations experience, so Neeleman’s startup is expected to keep an East Coast base for its operational team. That group will work on certifying the carrier with the Federal Aviation Administration.”

“More news about the airline’s plans should be made public next year, Johnson said, “

Still nothing about pilot recruitment.

JetBlue Founder David Neeleman Selects Salt Lake City as Headquarters for New Airline

America's newest and perhaps most innovative airline does not yet have a name, or any airplanes. But it now has a headquarters. David Neeleman's startup

skift.com