Most unprofessional tower controllers

[low-n-slow]

I knew this was gonna happen.

Buckel up everyone......it's going to get moderate!!!

Wow, trying to read that hurt my eyes, and I ain't nothing but a 'Farkken' ag pilot.

 

[PastFastMover]

Like I said earlier, two completely different jobs. If you want to be a major airline pilot then get qualified by whatever path you want. Fly in the military ( an extremely hard gig to get ) with resultant combat, fly in the corporate world ( a hard gig to get ), fly with the regionals after flight instructing ( a tough low paid road to hoe ). Once you have done one of the above then you are qualified to put in an application. If someone is actually hiring you "may" be considered if you are in the right economic cycle.

If you want to be a controller, get your degree or I believe you can meld it in with resultant work experience with years of service acting as credit hours. (I am sure I don't have this exactly right.) Pass the ATC specialist test. If the government thinks they need a few more controllers ( what that really means is the current system is totally understaffed and barely able to function due to lack of controllers) you put in your application and you may be considered.

Two completely different paths and two competely different jobs. Both difficult with each having their own hardships, difficulties, pro's and con's.

The ATC folks face the overbearing federal government on a constant basis, but if they hang in have a guraranteed paycheck (that keeps increasing because of the US Taxpayer) partly based on the part of the country they work in and and a tax payer paid retirement. The airline pilot is at the whim of incompetent management, deregulation, and the constant brutal battle of real competition. A paycheck that is generally going down irregardless of what part of the country you fly in, and a retirement that may or may not be there after working for multiple failed companies.

If you want either of these jobs, take your pick and go for it.

 

[chperplt]

It embarrasses me when they get really short with foreign carriers.

I was in JFK a few months back in line to depart off 13R. Lufthansa had landed 13L and had made the long taxi to his ramp. He was on the inner taxiway and needed ground to hold someone short of his ramp before he could get in. The ground controller told him to hold short and he would get him in when he could. 30 minutes later Lufthansa called ground back and was lambasted. Ground told him to maintain radio silence and he would get back to him when he had the time. 5 minutes later there was a gap and Lufthansa asked if he could proceed to the ramp. Ground started screaming at the guy and told him not to move and again maintain radio silence. The controller must have lost a relative during the war and didn't like Germans. It wasn't fun to listen to on the radio and the controller should have been disciplined.

It took us over an hour to get off the ground and Lufthansa was still holding short of the ramp when we left.

 

[Flying Illini]

I guess some 21 yr old know it all FO can be a pain in the butt...but so can a new controller who has screwed the pooch which results in an unnecessary inconvenience to the guys in the plane. But we all gotta learn, right? I'm based at an airport that has a tracon/tower that performs extensive controller training. *I* don't mind dealing with the new controllers b/c I understand that there is a serious learning curve to new jobs in our industry. It's fun to hear the same controller over the course of several months as they find their groove and get comfortable and the quality of their service increases and you hear their trainer break into the transmissions less and less.

I will relate an experience that just happened on Tuesday, going from KCMI-KDET. (disclaimer: I am not upset about this)
Over LYNTN intersection (near Put-In-Bay island in Lake Erie) we are told to slow to 180 kts (we fly up there a minimum of three times a week and normal is 250 or so till over Windsor, Ontario and then we slow accordingly, no restrictions on speed). So we slow down to 180. We fly about 10 miles like this (just a few miles over land now) and I queery ATC, "Are we following traffic to Detroit City?" (very politely) and he responds, "Yes, a single-engine commander, traffic at your 11 o clock 10 miles." The conversation that ensues in the cockpit is along the lines of why doesn't he just let us pass this traffic. We can be parked by the time this guy gets to the airport! But we say nothing and continue, if this guy wanted us in front, he probably would have put us there. 20 miles later, as we approach the Windsor airport, the controller again confirms that the commander is flying best forward speed to which the commander responds that he is flying as fast as possible. The controller then calls us and tells us to slow to final approach speed. So there we are, fully configured, 15 miles from the airport, 3000', waiting for this commander to get to the airport and land.
Anyway, this fiasco added just over 8 minutes to our normal flight time. No biggie, but an inconvenience. On the ground the commander pilot approached us and apologized for holding us up and said that he was honestly flying as fast as he could make it go. he also wondered why the contoller didn't just let us keep our speed up and pass him over lake Erie.
Again, no biggie, I think the controller realized his folly in handling us (both planes) the way he did. Hopefully he learned from it. I don't know if this was a new controller or not, but I had never heard his voice before and neither had the captain I was with.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Ah, the joys of being paid by the hour....

 

[Flying Illini]

Ah, the joys of being paid by the hour....

Man, if that was the case do you think I would call it an "inconvenience?!

Of course, I never thought of it that way, maybe the controller thought he was doing us a favor by getting us a little more money for the flight. If that was the case, I guess I should say "thankyou" even though it didn't help us.

 

[SammyG]

He's HARDCORE.

Space Coast Regional has a crazy old guy

Yep. I once heard him yell out "DOES ANYBODY IN THE PATTERN HEAR WHAT I'M SAYING????"

Granted the pattern was a zoo that day and people were missing their calls...but it was kinda funny/scary hearing him blow his stack.

We left the pattern and went to play around in MLB at this point.

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

Well, you gotta know us controllers need to vent too.....In the year and half I have been controlling I have witnessed at least 1000 pilot deviations but non pros and by pros. When ever I question them I usually get attitude and according to them us controllers are the reason for the violation, yeah, it was my fault a CL60 crossed the outer marker with a 280kt groundspeed even though the wind at 2000ft was calm. It was our fault, oh....and then our equipment was at fault, that was halarious. I play both sides, ive flown professionaly and I control professionaly. Im usually easy to get along with and I will accomidate almost anything but If you pilots would just appreciate some of the things we do for you then maybe we would all get along. Keep in mind pilots, the person on the other side of the radar is more then likely a type a personality. You get cocky pilots and cocky controllers and that is a bad situation. I work with the biggest bunch of idiots on a day to day basis and I work with the prof jet boys who are so miserable that you just can't make anybody friendly. So you bash us controllers, who are the most unproffesional??????

Well, then its my turn. USAIR pilots, Mesa Pilots, and anyone who flys for TAG, Options beechjet drivers, and alot of the Clay Lacy Lear drivers. Okay, im done.

 

[ISaidRightTurns]

I keep hearing this hiring controllers thing. Since when did we hire controllers? We hire people. We train people. We checkout controllers. Many won't make it.

 

[Flying Illini]

Ljtcaptain, I don't doubt that you have seen/heard some very unprofessional stuff from those of us in the aircraft. But, not from all of us, keep that in mind. You are painting with a broad brush. We're not all bad...we're not all good. You're not all bad...you're not all good.

IMHO, I don't view controllers as "them" and pilots as "us." That attitude just doesn't promote a good working environment and let's face it, we all work together...we just don't see each other's faces. This may sound corny but I'll say it anyway. When I do something good or help the controller out and he/she says thanks, I feel good. When a controller does a good job or an *incredible job* (the MDW tower controller this afternoon!) I will let him know when I make my last transmission to him. Hopefully it makes him feel good that his hard work was recognized just as it makes me feel good when I'm recognized.

My 2 cents.

...pilots aren't all bad!...

 

[Vector4fun]

When a controller does a good job or an *incredible job* (the MDW tower controller this afternoon!) I will let him know when I make my last transmission to him. Hopefully it makes him feel good that his hard work was recognized just as it makes me feel good when I'm recognized.

Illini,

Thanks, it's appreciated. Lord knows, nobody in FAA manglement know's how to say it anymore....

 

[mnixon]

Yep. I once heard him yell out "DOES ANYBODY IN THE PATTERN HEAR WHAT I'M SAYING????"

Granted the pattern was a zoo that day and people were missing their calls...but it was kinda funny/scary hearing him blow his stack.

We left the pattern and went to play around in MLB at this point.

You ever get the "report the Wal-mart inbound!" First time I heard that I nearly crapped myself laughing hysterically, but guaranteed I saw that bugger about 10 miles out!

 

[TDTURBO]

After Flying all around the U.S., I have come to appreciate the superior quality of controllers in Chicago compared to Phoenix or other places out west. It is like night and day. The guys at Chicago approach are incredible, not always pleasant but very good at what they do. I can say the same for South Bend approach as well, plus they are extremely accommodating and pleasant to deal with.

I have also run into a real as-hole in Kissimmee more than once, and I wasn't shy about telling him either.


As far as what flying Illini said, I do the same, I always give credit where credit is do if the contoller is good, the opposite is true as well. I never hesitate to point out obvious screw-ups on "their end" either.

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

flyingillini wrote:
IMHO, I don't view controllers as "them" and pilots as "us." That attitude just doesn't promote a good working environment and let's face it, we all work together...we just don't see each other's faces. This may sound corny but I'll say it anyway. When I do something good or help the controller out and he/she says thanks, I feel good. When a controller does a good job or an *incredible job* (the MDW tower controller this afternoon!) I will let him know when I make my last transmission to him. Hopefully it makes him feel good that his hard work was recognized just as it makes me feel good when I'm recognized.

In all honesty, when you thank a controller, its the kiss of death seriously. We view that as a point in the day in which we sounded busy and that we were on the verge of loosing the picture. Someone says goodjob to me and I know Im going down fast so I hate to hear it.

TDTurbo wrote:
After Flying all around the U.S., I have come to appreciate the superior quality of controllers in Chicago compared to Phoenix or other places out west. It is like night and day. The guys at Chicago approach are incredible, not always pleasant but very good at what they do. I can say the same for South Bend approach as well, plus they are extremely accommodating and pleasant to deal with.

This all comes down to good management means happy controllers. Phoenix has bad management, but supervisors etc....They even had a controller a few years back kill herself because she was having problems with some of the controllers and management didn't do a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** thing to stop it. When there is good hub management, good management at each faciltiy all the controllers can relax. I honestly think I have the best ATM and best Hub Manager in the entire system. All of us controllers are generally happy with our working conditions minus being severly understaffed.

 

[Flying Illini]

In all honesty, when you thank a controller, its the kiss of death seriously. We view that as a point in the day in which we sounded busy and that we were on the verge of loosing the picture. Someone says goodjob to me and I know Im going down fast so I hate to hear it.

You may have been on the verge of losing the picture, but you didn't. You were operating at capacity and doing a heluva job NOT losing the picture. There are times when traffic is heavy or wx changes game plans. When ATC is able to make adjustments while still accomodating the guys in the planes as much as possible, that's pretty incredible to me. The MDW controller was working hard during all the afternoon inbounds and outbounds all while having people fly the ILS 31C, circle 22L. We offered up 22R since we could land on it and he gladly accepted. Going to million air we were stuck for about 5 minutes or so waiting to cross 22L from 22R. During that 5 minutes we were able to witness a controller who was handling an enormous amount of arrivals and departures while making sure people didn't fly bomber patterns over downtown Chicago during their circles. It was d@mn impressive to listen to and watch. And he did it like a well oiled machine. I don't know if he was on the verge of losing the picture, he just had to keep an eye on us pilots to make sure non of us screwed the pooch. Had that happened his whole system would have come crashing down (not literally!). Having said that, his well oiled machine works to near perfection because the pilots also understand that operations are being conducted with no room for error, when he says I need you on the roll NOW, it means the power should be at full and the plane rolling by the time you finish the readback. When both sides operate like that, it makes both sides happy. Now, when someone doesn't follow directions, I can understand the controllers when they get upset.

Anyway, as said above, credit where credit is due, everytime.