Most expensive fractional?

[fischman]

Maybe things are about to change. I hope so -- I am an investor in the HIG Capital fund which has bought FLOPS. So I have a very real economic benefit in its success.

Fly safe.

From what I've been reading on these boards, you might want to start making some phone calls to the upper level management at FLOPS in order to protect your investment.

The labor strife is making them HEMORAGE money from what I've read.

Also, I am pleased that you are happy with the service you get from us at NJA. We are working hard.

 

[Publishers]

I did not realize that Netjets now keeps aircraft for 13 years. If I remember correctly, one of the big selling features in the past was that the aircraft were all five years or less old. This kept the complaints down from people who bought a new share and then some older aircraft showed up to transport them. Originally this was also the difference in strategy with FLOPS who utilized used aircraft and hence lower intial share prices and less exposure to the vulgarities of residual value. I also thought that the money you sent Netjets monthly was for the share plus interest and that you depreciated the 1/16th, 1/4 or whatever share you had. There was then the recapture at the end.
The differences were the lower capital costs, but the Netjets fees which were higher as compared to outright ownership, higher commitment but you geting the tax benefit and a possible lower ownership cost in the end if you had the use. The big question is do 16/16ths add up to the cost of a new X aircraft or does NJA do what aircraft leasing companies do--- buy a discount but price at retail.

 

[RNObased]

The company who gave me the best terms for the best price based on the needs of my company. If I own an international empire then I would have to go with NJ and probably swallow whatever prices they gave me. If I own a small domestic US operation then I would do my shopping. Recovery times are good, buts what even better is guaranteed recovery times. NJ historically has great recovery times, however, if the terms of my contract only guaranteed me recovery within 3 hours and someone else guaranteed me recovery within 2 hours it would be a huge bargaining point. I would also look at how well the model I was purchasing held its value. The safety factor would be a mute point because I think the fractional industry as a whole has a pretty good safety record. All the fractionals have a pretty good customer basis because we all provide a percieved value to our owners.

Your information isn't accurate. I know for a fact that NJA doesn't negotiate on price. If you buy a share of a Encore and your buddy buys a share of a Encore, the price is the same. This got FLOP's into big trouble years ago when owners were sitting around having drinks and started talking about what they paided. Next thing you know someone is pissed.

You can say I'm full of crap if you want. My info comes straight from the people who know.

Owner could probably back me up on this.

Also recovery time maybe in a contract, however if the jet I'm flying for you breaks and a XL is sitting next to me, and that XL is given the trip it is airborne as quickly as is safe to do.

Lastly never listen to JonJuan about anything. He is really quite clueless.

 

[RNObased]

You better believe that owners have to sell their aircraft. In fact right now, many Ultra owners, for example, are being forced out of their aircraft and the only way to stay in the program is to buy another "newer" Ultra or an Encore. NJA is now keeping aircraft in the fleet for 13 years. Problem is, there is typically very little residual value left on a 13 year old plane with 13,000+ hours.
CS keeps planes in the fleet for 9 years, Flex 7-years, and FLOPs, who knows.

Atta boy Jonjuan, don't let the facts get in the way of your ranting!!!

 

[imacdog]

paided

Nice! :beer:

 

[NJAowner]

RNOBased is correct. NJA made the business decision years ago not to negotiate on price. There are 2 things most men lie about, the size of certain things and what they paid for a car or plane. The fact is every NJA owner (CEO, celebrity, other) thisnkshe is special and does not want to think that someone paid less. I ahve a good friend who was in the first 50 owners of NJA planes and his company also bought sveral shares. A few years ago we both both Excel shares and he paid the same as me (He maybe given a few more upgrades, but we paid the same amount). This price integrity is key to NJA's marketing.

PS - to JonJuan. Noone has to but a new "Ultra share" as long as the fleet is still being flown. I am sure that as the fleet is almost retired, some long term Ultra owners do need to pony up to get into a current fleet. That is very different from adding money to stay in the same fleet.

Fly safe.

 

[glasspilot]

I'm glad that the forced buy back thing is cleared up. However, the original point about depreciation remains. Even if you own your G-400 share for 90 years and sell it when you die at 95, there is depreciation of that share. NetJets now holds a plane that is worth something. My bet is they sell the plane at X and pay the share owner X - (some percent).

That is how you make money. You never make money by "eating" significant costs like depreciation.

 

[fischman]

PS - to JonJuan. Noone has to but a new "Ultra share" as long as the fleet is still being flown. I am sure that as the fleet is almost retired, some long term Ultra owners do need to pony up to get into a current fleet. That is very different from adding money to stay in the same fleet.

Fly safe.

Just a slight clarification. We still have almost 60 Ultra's. However, you are correct. It is a declining fleet, and it should take about 6 years to say goodbye to the last one. I have personally retired 2 airplanes.

 

[fam62c]

Nice...whats the latest motto..We give you more
.....Because we pay less....

"We're not happy until you're not happy."

That's an old airline saying.