More TSA Crapola Rules (PIT)

[LearLove]

This from our company weekly "Flight Dept. Update"

"It has come to my attention that PIT has implemented some new rules in regard to security procedures. While we are not sure if these changes are permanent I wanted to give you the heads up until I have further information.

PIT does not allow crews to walkfrom one aircraft to another during an aircraft swap. If you are swapping aircraft in PIT you must walk into the terminal at your gate and back out at the gate for the aircraft you are swapping into. Also if you have a long layover in PIT and you go into the terminal PIT agents will not allow you back to your aircraft until the release is issued for your next flight."

FU TSA, thanks for making my job harder. If I had a gun I'd shoot you people.

 

[Dash8]

This from our company weekly "Flight Dept. Update"
*snip*
PIT does not allow crews to walkfrom one aircraft to another during an aircraft swap. If you are swapping aircraft in PIT you must walk into the terminal at your gate and back out at the gate for the aircraft you are swapping into. Also if you have a long layover in PIT and you go into the terminal PIT agents will not allow you back to your aircraft until the release is issued for your next flight."

FU TSA, thanks for making my job harder. If I had a gun I'd shoot you people.

amen brother,
damed wand monkeys can't stop screwin with everyones $hit

shootings too humane, i'm thinking anal electrocution would be the preferable method of 'culling the herd'

 

[Tripower455]

The tsA is responsible for the illusion of AIRPORT "security". Pilots on the ramp and jetway are considered a security risk. For some unknown reason, the only time you aren't a security risk is when you are in the cockpit. While you'd never consider flying your airplane into a building, you might be tempted to hijack a tug or provisioning truck!

Heck, I can't be alone in a jetway, I can only be there if a "trusted" employee looks at my ID and then escorts me. Almost took a delay today because the ops agents didn't come up to verify the crew. Jetway security sure is tight these days!

Those Al Quaedas will never get a jetway off the ground now that the "trusted" employees are checking the ID's of pilots and flight attendants.

Meanwhile, the "trusted" employees (rampers, provisioners cleaners, ops agents, fuelers etc.) STILL go in the back door unchecked........................................



The Greatest Security Show on Earth must go ON!

 

[XGmaninGA]

Be careful what you wish for. One of the bills in the House right now will mandate ALL airport employees, including us pilots showing up in our domicile for work, to go through TSA Screening. That will be fun.

 

[saabcaptain]

Be careful what you wish for. One of the bills in the House right now will mandate ALL airport employees, including us pilots showing up in our domicile for work, to go through TSA Screening. That will be fun.

ouch.

 

[dondk]

In MEM.. the policy is....
if your not "badged" then they MUST escort you to your aircraft (ramper, gate agent or someone with a MEM badge).

I had the release with MY name on it, with my company ID and my DTW SIDA badge and that was still not enough.

That TSA rule makes no sense.. but that is what they do..

Also, if you are not badged, I have had some people not give you the door codes so you can get back in after the walk around. They also change those $%$^& door codes about every 2-3 months.

 

[gslope2004]

Walk Arounds, reach around?

Sounds like the TSA will be doing the ramp checks as well, I mean after all ya cant have people walking around the airplane Just before it leaves the gate! I would aske the gate agent to walk me out on the ramp as well.

This whole thing is just got out of hand, everyone has their own little rice bowl or power to make them feel like they are contributing to homeland security...Geez it make me ill to see this nonsense.

 

[learflyer]

On the fractional side of things, Did you hear about the new 135 crap we have to do? Security tape on all emergency exits and doors (when done for the day), lock all doors and emergency exits. We also have to close and lock the main cabin door when inside the FBO for a given amount of time. This one is my favorite: when we are in a real small town airport, we have to call the local law enforcement and have them come out and watch the aicraft all night!! Who is going to pay for this? What if we don't do it?

Please, someone correct me if any of this is just a silly rumor!!

 

[LearLove]

On the fractional side of things, Did you hear about the new 135 crap we have to do? Security tape on all emergency exits and doors (when done for the day), lock all doors and emergency exits. We also have to close and lock the main cabin door when inside the FBO for a given amount of time. This one is my favorite: when we are in a real small town airport, we have to call the local law enforcement and have them come out and watch the aicraft all night!! Who is going to pay for this? What if we don't do it?

Please, someone correct me if any of this is just a silly rumor!!

Learflyer,

It goes without saying that I think that stuff is yet again crapola. The on thing you guys have on your side is AOPA. Make sure they know about this. AOPA has been awsome fighting for the bizz/GA/135 guy. ALPA needs to take note. Phil will squash this issue for you guys, wish we had him.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's something that happened this morning. I went to nonrev home to my parents house for a couple of days from SYR. I showed up at the TSA wearing kaki (sp?) pants, blue shirt and a navy blue blazer. The TSA guys says that since I'm not in uniform I need a ticket bla bla bla.

(I was told they stopped this so I had not stoped by the ticket counter, plus two weeks prior I had gone to my checkride in CLT in the same outfit and they didn't stop me without a ticket then)

In my roller bag I have my uniform as I plan on nonreving into my trip on fri. So I leave the line, walk ten feet to the mens room, change into my uniform pants and shirt w/ eppulets and walk back to the TSA people. Now the same a$$wipe that sent me away just minutes ago lets me thru. I walk to the mens room by the gate change back into my previous cloths, check in for the flight and nonrev home. GOOD WORK TSA, YOU SAVED THE WORLD, WHATEVER.

 

[Dash8]

Learflyer,

*snip*

In my roller bag I have my uniform as I plan on nonreving into my trip on fri. So I leave the line, walk ten feet to the mens room, change into my uniform pants and shirt w/ eppulets and walk back to the TSA people. Now the same a$$wipe that sent me away just minutes ago lets me thru. I walk to the mens room by the gate change back into my previous cloths, check in for the flight and nonrev home. GOOD WORK TSA, YOU SAVED THE WORLD, WHATEVER.

yeah, they started to pitch a fit to me about that too, the id person right at the entrance, so what happens when we want to go to the crew room on days off to pick up bidpackages or go in for re-current groundschool there.
bunch of fascists.....
too bad tom ridge and admiral loy weren't blown away in the attacks instead of two other people that probably could have made good contributions to the world (yes i know that jackass ridge wouldn't have been in washington necesarily at the time, just saying for the sake of argument)

 

[flx757]

bunch of fascists.....
too bad tom ridge and admiral loy weren't blown away in the attacks instead of two other people that probably could have made good contributions to the world (yes i know that jackass ridge wouldn't have been in washington necesarily at the time, just saying for the sake of argument)

Wishing death on ANYONE (just for the sake of argument), says what about YOU as a person?

And you call the TSA fascists? Do you have a clue as to the meaning of the word?

I'm not here to stick up for or even give ANY opinion of the TSA. I'm just pointing out what I read in your post. This thread is just another example as to where this board has gone in the past year or so.

Gone....that's where I need to be. So, this will be my last post on this forum...unless I have some information about my company that may do someone some good. In that case, I will post it.

But besides that, there is NO reason to participate here any longer. I have been on the fence on this for a while. A few of the posts I have read today (this one at the top of the list) have made my mind up for me.

You boys have fun. See you down the road somewhere.

 

[Dash8301]

Does this mean that I cannot do my walk around? Or at least not without the consent of the high school dropouts that make sure grandma gets a full body cavity search prior to boarding.

 

[Dash8]

re: opprobrium?

Wishing death on ANYONE (just for the sake of argument), says what about YOU as a person?

And you call the TSA fascists? Do you have a clue as to the meaning of the word?

why yes, yes I do

Fascism
1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

not quite sure where you were going with that
unless you thought I meant facetiousness
which is an entirely different concept, but more applicable in ideal, to my originating post than accusing me of facism

I'm not here to stick up for or even give ANY opinion of the TSA. I'm just pointing out what I read in your post. This thread is just another example as to where this board has gone in the past year or so.

Gone....that's where I need to be. So, this will be my last post on this forum...unless I have some information about my company that may do someone some good. In that case, I will post it.

But besides that, there is NO reason to participate here any longer. I have been on the fence on this for a while. A few of the posts I have read today (this one at the top of the list) have made my mind up for me.

You boys have fun. See you down the road somewhere.

well, last time I checked it's a free country(for the most part at least), so thats your perogative,
I submit though, that much like the innevitable rubbernecking that occurs at roadside accidents, you'll be back, like the others, once again decrying posts you find 'beneath' you and avowing the 'truth' that your really really leaving this time.

back to my original thought here that it being a 'free' country, you can actively choose not to click on, let alone respond to threads, that you know your not going to like.
I'm sure you probably do find some amusement and genuinely helpful information somewhere on this board, so why cut the face off in spite of the nose?

 

[Typhoon1244]

PIT does not allow crews to walkfrom one aircraft to another during an aircraft swap. If you are swapping aircraft in PIT you must walk into the terminal at your gate and back out at the gate for the aircraft you are swapping into.

Can anyone explain to me what this measure protects us from? I'm trying very hard to find some logic (however contorted) behind this policy, and I can't.

 

[urflyingme?!]

Typhoon
The reason you can't walk out of a plane that just landed SAFELY to another plane is because they have a confirmed source that says: "Well what if Al Qaeda takes over a plane, exchanges the pilot with a zombie/robot/mind control device etc... and THEN(they're sooo sneaky those Al Qaedas) he gets into ANOTHER plane which he then causes mass casualties with!??!?!"

So you see it's very clear, we're screwed.
BTW
What if the good old gov'ment was runnin your hospital!
(Shameless conservitive plug)

 

[NEDude]

Can anyone explain to me what this measure protects us from? I'm trying very hard to find some logic (however contorted) behind this policy, and I can't.

It is not about logic, security or anything like that. Someone at PIT wants recognition from a higher up, pure and simple. Thus the new rules.

 

[Vector4fun]

I have two comments regarding the TSA bashing that goes on here:

1. While I certainly don't disagree with the idea that most TSA rules are "window dressing" and not likely to prevent an intelligent and patient person from carrying out an attack, one thing to keep in mind is that appearances have some usefullness in convincing folks it's safe to fly again. Please, no labored posts about the actual effectiveness of the procedures, I KNOW. What I'm saying is that many citizens (passengers) have the attention span of a two year old for technical details, know next to nothing about YOUR jobs, or TSA's, and is somewhat comforted by the apparent strict attention to security. That gets some more fares back on your aircraft. While it's certainly worthwhile to persue more effective and less intrusive screening, appearances DO mean something.

2. Most of the folks on this board are supposed to be somewhat more intelligent than average. I mean, you passed the ATP or Instrument written, right? The guy wanding your crotch DIDN'T MAKE THE RULES! You all know that, right? I mean, I'm no fan of Ridge or Ashcroft either for that matter, but the folks to be MAD at are the folks who make the rules, and set the policies. NOT the folks tasked to impliment them. They are (for the most part) doing their jobs as they were told to. Many of us have had to follow unpopular policies because our jobs demanded we do so. So focus your anger on the folks who used, or abused their authority to screw with you, not on the face at the screening line.

 

[Tripower455]

While it's certainly worthwhile to persue more effective and less intrusive screening, appearances DO mean something.

It means that we, as professionals, didn't put a stop to it when they first mandated that we submit to PASSENGER screening back in '88 (due, ironically, to the actions of an ex ground ops employee, who still do NOT get screened....).

"Appearances" are not a good enough reason to screen (for weapons) the only employees on the airport that don't need a weapon to take over the airplane, while the rest waltz in the back door unchecked.

It's disgusting. All it does is make our job harder, while not hindering the terrorists one whit.

 

[Bandit60]

Quick tsa story: I fly coporate and was in Boston where they have medal detectors and baggage screening machines for the fbo. I asked the tsa person, what do you do if someone has a firearm, He said that he would not be aloud on board. I informed him that it was not illegal to have a firearm on a private aircraft. He did not know what to do. He thought about it for a while and said to me that he would inform the pilots.

Just another example of knee jerk reaction.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Here's an idea: maybe each airline can have three or four different uniforms for their pilots. The night before you fly, crew sked. calls you and tells you which uniform has been chosen at random for your crew for that day. Anyone who shows up in an incorrect uniform is immediately taken out by a TSA sniper.

What do you think?

(Better not say it too loud...Loy might go for it!)

 

[Tripower455]

Here's an idea: maybe each airline can have three or four different uniforms for their pilots. The night before you fly, crew sked. calls you and tells you which uniform has been chosen at random for your crew for that day. Anyone who shows up in an incorrect uniform is immediately taken out by a TSA sniper.

That's more logical than what they're doing now!


Right now they are screening crewmembers as passengers, to make sure that they don't have any weapons that they can use to "take over the plane" (direct quote from a tsA minion).

They don't screen ground ops, gate agents, fuelers, provisioners, cleaners, rampers, etc., since, after they watch a 45 minute video and are given a special badge, they are now considered "trusted employees" (another direct quote from the CEO of my company). Keep in mind, that a member of this elite, "trusted" group has already committed mass murder by bringing a weapon on board a commercial flight (PSA 1771), which resulted in the screening of pilots (but not "trusted" employees).

Anyone see the logic flaw in this idea? Does anyone think that the bad guys won't try to get jobs on the ramp and simply BRING what they want into the "secure" area?

Pilots are the absolute LAST employee group that should be screened, since it makes absolutely NO difference whether they bring a weapon on board or not. Screening us is nothing more than a waste of time at one end, and a possible end to a career at the other (don't leave a mini Swiss Army knife in your bag by accident!).

Vector4 fun is absolutely correct in saying that pilot screening will make a small percentage of the dumber pax feel better. This is the only reason that we are screened. If actual security had anything to do with it, the ground ops folks would be enduring it as well, and we'd be the ones bypassing.

I guess that when an easily recognized, authority figure (pilot) gets the same feel up as the pax, a certain number of them will (wrongfully) conclude that security is airtight.

 

[Dash8]

vilification

had a beautiful experience the other day trying to get through the 'security' at my base.

show up at the checkpoint for my trip, wearing a navy fleece pullover with my uniform, with my id out.

wandmonkey (wm) at the front of xray machine goes "tickets please?"
me "tickets?"
wm: you need tickets to get through here
me: *holding up id* no, no i don't need tickets.
wm: your not in uniform you have to have a ticket
me *pulling away pullover to show uniform shirt* yes i am
wm: where's your jacket?
me: *incredulously* my what?
wm: your jacket, you have to have your jacket
me: *looking around for hidden candid cameras or alan funt jr* i don't have a jacket (long story)
wm: well I can't let you thru without a ticket
me: i don't need a ticket i'm working this is my crewbase
wm: well i have to ask a supervisor
(meanwhile theres about a 100 person line behind me watching this freakshow)
wm: SUPERVISOR?!?!?!
wand monkey supervisor(wms): yeah whats going on?
wm: he doesn't have a jacket or tickets
me: because i'm working *holding up fancy new CREW id tsa made the companies change to for easy id'ing*
wms: are you working?
me: uh, yes
wms: are you in uniform?
me: *once again moving fleece* yes
wms: oh yeah,he's got a tie on, he's ok
me: thank you
wm: *dirty look*
me: so let me ask you, what happens when we have to come down to pick up some paperwork from the company down in our crewroom or when we have ground school training downstairs?
wms: you can't come thru security if your not working or flying
me: this is our crewbase, we recieve papers and documents from our company down in our crewroom
wms: you get mail here?
me: yes, we have boxes that the company puts things in that we have to have.
wms: oh....uh......ok, well, just tell them you aren't flying then when you come thru.

 

[dispatchguy]

Cant we just shoot them all and get it over with?

 

[XGmaninGA]

Your hard earned tax dollars at work!

 

[dispatchguy]

Your hard earned tax dollars at work!

Yeah, and I am about to write a check to the Internal Ripoff Service for about 600 bucks too - would be nice to be able to use that to move in 2 weeks...

I think that election day should be moved to the first business day AFTER taxes are due - Washington would look much different

 

[username]

My personal favorite was at BWI not too long ago.

I was in uniform jumpseating home on WN. There are two security checkpoints you can use to access WN and AA flights. Sadly, I don't work for them so no WN uniform. I just got finished flying and was literally running from another concourse to make the flight.

TSA- "Are you working a flight?"
ME- "No, I just finished flying 5 minutes ago and I'm going home."
TSA-"Well you need a ticket then. Sorry, new policy."
ME-"I work here. I'm in uniform. I just landed. I just had to leave security on the other concourse to come down here and get on my flight."
TSA-"Sorry, you still need a ticket."
ME-" Fine, I'll go down to the next checkpoint."

I get to the next checkpoint show my ID and go thru with no questions. At least stupidty is equally applied!

 

[Bluestreak]

It is obvious that the TSA has outlived it's usefulness,having quashed the threat of terrorism,the mission now is to keep the world safe from airline pilots.When faced with these new "rules",I just want to meet face-to-face the moron who thought them up.It's like some bored small town cop,with no real crime to fight,sits on the side of the road ticketing people for going 5MPH over the limit.Maybe we need to have a "max security week"-kinda like "max safety",i.e.,taxi at a crawl,etc.If you can't walk over to the a/c in the next parking spot-fine-go through ALL the hoops and if it causes a delay-so be it.

 

[dispatchguy]

It is obvious that the TSA has outlived it's usefulness,having quashed the threat of terrorism,the mission now is to keep the world safe from airline pilots.When faced with these new "rules",I just want to meet face-to-face the moron who thought them up.It's like some bored small town cop,with no real crime to fight,sits on the side of the road ticketing people for going 5MPH over the limit.Maybe we need to have a "max security week"-kinda like "max safety",i.e.,taxi at a crawl,etc.If you can't walk over to the a/c in the next parking spot-fine-go through ALL the hoops and if it causes a delay-so be it.

You have met him - he's Barney Fife

 

[skydash]

TSA CRAP

Yes,Yes,Yes.....and to add insult to injury(and I know you guys and girls get tired of reading this same rant from me,but I'm gonna continue to do it until it gets changed),I keep gettin bumped off of airplanes with full cabins...AND EMPTY $#@!!%* JUMPSEATS!! When...when....when are we EVER going to ride an offline jumpseat again??? God knows that having another pilot up there is obviously a threat to the civilized world....why... just look at all the planes over the past 50 years that have been hijacked by a jumpseating pilot!! I wish the TSA brain donor who passed that rule had to get to work offline. Ok.....I'm hopping off the soapbox now...deep breaths.....deep breaths......

 

[Typhoon1244]

Actually, I've been pretty lucky in my dealings with the TSA...so far. (It's the FBI that gave me fits, but that's another story...) TSA does a good job of plastering a smiley-face on an extremely wasteful process.

At this point, the only recurring TSA problem I have is with one particular screener in DFW, at the E-33 checkpoint. I'm embarassed that I've never caught her name, but she's perhaps thirty-five or forty with short, light-brown hair...and regardless of what she'd doing, she'll drop everything and knock down six people to get in a pilots face and say, very deliberatley, "you have a great day."

Anybody know the one I'm talkin' 'bout? I know you ASA folks know her!