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More proof that the TSA is trying to kill us

ShawnC

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A fire broke out in the "attic" above the cabin ceiling of an American Airlines flight on Nov. 29, 2000, after the MD-80 jet was struck by lightning. A flight attendant tried to shoot Halon at the ceiling panel, but it had no effect. A passenger cut through a ceiling panel with a pocketknife so the attendant could shoot Halon directly at the fire and put it out.



That solution would no longer be available: Passengers have not been able to carry knives since terrorists used them in the Sept. 11 hijackings.
From:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=676&e=5&u=/usatoday/fatalfirehazardsfindhidingplacesinsideplanes
 

EagleRJ

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Flight crews continue to have a need for access to tools in flight, to take care of things like this. We can't even have pliers or a screwdriver, since "we could use them to take control of the airplane".

Hopefully the TSA will be brought under control before someone dies.
 

ShawnC

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Eagle,

I heard some of the TSA counters aren't even allowing D-cell flashlights because you can use it as a bat or something.
 

Ailerongirl

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Just a thought.

I have a feeling I might get flamed for this (no pun intended), but in the event that there is an on-board fire behind a panel, to me the logical thing to do would be to call my crew, let them know I've loacted the area in which the fire is, and let them know I need the crash axe to get to it. I'm not stupid enough to start smashing away in the cabin without caution, but doesn't it seem that common sense in getting the fire extinguished outweighs the opening of the cockpit door?

Or did I just give the TSA a good enough reason to take another piece of our emergency equipment away?
 
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NuGuy

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ShawnC said:
Eagle,

I heard some of the TSA counters aren't even allowing D-cell flashlights because you can use it as a bat or something.
Shawn,

Been waiting for this to happen, since under 121, each crew member is REQUIRED to have a D-cell flashlight. Flight doesn't go, and I can go get some lunch while the TSA and FAA battle it out.

Best,
Nu
 

EagleRJ

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ShawnC said:
Eagle,

I heard some of the TSA counters aren't even allowing D-cell flashlights because you can use it as a bat or something.
Heck, I put a D-cell Maglight in my kit bag after 9/11, both to have another flashlight, and as a makeshift defensive weapon. Some TSA goons commented on it, but no one was able to form a convincing argument why I shouldn't be allowed to have it.
 

nosewheel

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I have recently had my nail clippers taken from my bag (twice) and all the while my Leatherman was sitting in the same bag. I carry this stuff in my checkin (big bag) but on ocassion have to run it through the X-Ray machine when we go through a gate to get to our Freighter. I have also had a TSA idiot try and take my double D flashlight but if you ask for a supervisor you can keep it.
 

TR4A

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NuGuy said:
Shawn,

Been waiting for this to happen, since under 121, each crew member is REQUIRED to have a D-cell flashlight. Flight doesn't go, and I can go get some lunch while the TSA and FAA battle it out.
121 just says a flashlight.

91:503 Flying equipment and operating information.

(a) The pilot in command of an airplane shall ensure that the following flying equipment and aeronautical charts and data, in current and appropriate form, are accessible for each flight at the pilot station of the airplane:

(1) A flashlight having at least two size "D" cells, or the equivalent, that is in good working order."


121.549 - Flying equipment.


(a) The pilot in command shall ensure that appropriate aeronautical charts containing adequate information concerning navigation aids and instrument approach procedures are aboard the aircraft for each flight.

(b) Each crewmember shall, on each flight, have readily available for his use a flashlight that is in good working order.
 

Tripower455

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Been waiting for this to happen, since under 121, each crew member is REQUIRED to have a D-cell flashlight. Flight doesn't go, and I can go get some lunch while the TSA and FAA battle it out.
I went through this a few years ago in PDX, right around the time that the tsA took over airport "security" screening. I was in the middle of a pairing and working a flight. The tsA goons weren't going to let me through with my D cell flashlight (a plastic bodied, "Property of TWA" flashlight..... a story in itself). I told the first goon that I was required to have the flashlight, and that I wouldn't be allowed to fly the aircraft without it. She said no go (no explanation as to why). Another goon came over and asked if there were a problem, and the original goon said that I was trying to take the flashlight through, and confirmed that I was not allowed to take it. I asked to see a manager, and got my wish. I explained that I was REQUIRED by the FAA to carry a flashlight, and that if they took it, that the flight I was scheduled to fly would not be able to go. The manager told me that it wasn't her problem, and that I couldn't take the light! I pulled out my cell phone and she asked who I was calling. I told her I was calling the chief pilot on duty to explain why I wouldn't be able to fly the flight. Before I even hit the speed dial, she conferred with someone else on her walkie talkie, and then told me that I could take the light, "this time". I rolled my eyes and went on my way.

I would like to know WHEN we will be treated as part of the solution, rather than part of the problem.

I fail to see how security is enhanced in any way by forcing flight crews, who are GOING to take over an airplane, to submit to passenger screening for weapons. As the ONLY employees on the airport who don't need weapons to take over an airplane, it makes no sense to screen them for weapons, especially when those (all other "trusted" employees) that would need a weapon to take over an airplane AREN'T screened. To add insult to injury, the same folks that aren't screened have at least one incident of mass murder under their belts (that would have been prevented had they been subject to screening), yet still aren't screened.

It's surreal...........
 

atrdriver

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I have a 4 foot bicycle chain attached to the handle of my overnight bag to secure it in the cargo compartment (so rampers can't take it off by accident). I have had nail clippers, plastic knives, matches, lighters, and pens taken from me, but not one TSA screener has EVER commented about this 4 foot chain. Go figure.

atrdriver
 

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I used to carry a little keyshaped multi-tool on my keychain. One of those little things that folds into a key shape, but unfolds to reveal a few handy little tools (yes, including a blade, so I guess it was contraband). I carried it before 9-11 and continued to carry it for a few months after until a TSA screener noticed it going through the belt in MHT. Alright, I'm busted, take the stupid thing. I didn't put up a fight, but the screener made a scene out of it, telling me in a loud voice (loud enough for everybody in a 20 foot radius) "shame on you, YOU of all people should know better than this...". I wasn't having any of that, so I replied, "Shame on you! It took the TSA over 5 months to even find this thing, and I go through security 6 or 7 times a week", in the same loud voice. She took the item, but didn't say anything after that, and I went on my way with a satisfied grin.

Then, a few months later, I started carrying a small Sears Craftsman screwdriver doo-hicky on my key chain. About the size of a $.50 piece, with 4 little flat bladed screwdrivers around the edges. You can find them at the checkout counter at a Sears Hardware Store for less than a buck, very handy for all kinds of things at work, the car, or at home. No blades on it. My pen or the keys on my keychain pose more of a threat. Again, I carried it for several months, until the goons at MHT found that! She said it was a "tool" which is contraband. Feeling lucky, I asked her "What could I do with that, dissassemble the plane one screw at a time?". No comment from her, but the USAirways GSC got into the action by this point. The GSC said that she would take it and if I met her down in ops, she would take my address to mail it back to me at home. Which I took to mean "come downstairs and I'll just give it back to you (wink, wink)". And wouldn't you know it, she actually would not give it back to me, and sure enough it was mailed back to me. As I was leaving the checkpoint, I told the screener that I would just but another one when I got home and carry that for another 6 months (I was pretty pissed) until she found the next one. Again, no comment. But I now carry that same tool on my keychain, and it's never been a problem again.

And don't get me started on the hit-or-miss, on-again-off-again policy of not allowing un-uniformed crew members with valid ID badges through the checkpoint unless they have a boarding pass...

Hopefully when Bush and his goons go back to Texas this January, some of this stupidity will stop.
 

EagleRJ

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Bush isn't at fault for the antics of the Wand Monkeys. The US Congress created the TSA and DHS, at the direction of President Bush. Where they went wrong was in the insufficient control and oversight they built into the program. In the heated emotions immediately after 9/11, the mission they gave the TSA was essentially, "Do whatever you need to do to make us safe- we don't care how". Hence the current daily performances of Ringling Brothers Barnum and TSA's Greatest Show on Earth.

The creation of the TSA was an experiment that has now been proven to have failed horribly. I'm looking forward to someone making a movie about the thousands of bizzarre incidents at TSA checkpoints, all while 50% of planted weapons (and who knows what else) continues to make it through.

The TSA is responsible for much of the fall-off in travel on the airlines, and there may be a change underway in the fundamental way people travel. I read recently that several years ago, people were willing to drive two hours before they would consider buying an airline ticket.

Today, that figure is ten hours.
 

Tripower455

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"shame on you, YOU of all people should know better than this...".

That's a funny statement...... we DO know better.............

I wish they'd learn that whether it's "contraband" or not, taking it from a flight crewmember does nothing to increase airliner security..........

Funny how it isn't "contraband" when it's in the posession of the "trusted" ground pounder in MHT.........
 

ILikePlanes

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I have to agree with all of you on this one. The TSA has and always will be out of hand until they are finally dissolved. With in a year after 9/11, i had taken my leatherman past security many times (never while taking a flight, but when i was working i always have one on my belt). The few times i had a problem, i just asked to talk to the supervisor and was quickly sent on my way.

Until, this one TSA nazi supervisor. She tells me that I can't have tools on "this" side of the airport. I ask her if I can have wrenches, scissors, screwdrivers, putty scrapers, etc. just about an entire list of stuff that is either in my toolbag or my roll away. Guess what her freaking answer was, " i don't know how you got that stuff in here but NO!!" She basically tells me I can't have anything that might cause damage to an airplane. Basically, I'm not allowed to work at the airport, so if you guys se any mechanics out on the ramp at MDW, IMMEDEATELY call the special police. I finally got it back though after my I left through the terminal and had my sup pick me up and take me back in through the security gate.

First thing i did when i got back in (maybe not the smartest), filled my pockets with every tool i could fit in them and went back and talked to the TSA supervisor as to why I couldn't get my leatherman through. It was worth it though when she saw me back up there so quick and my pockets filled with contraband. Oh well, now I just walk through naked so I don't get hassled. :D
 

Dash8

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91 said:
Then, a few months later, I started carrying a small Sears Craftsman screwdriver doo-hicky on my key chain. About the size of a $.50 piece, with 4 little flat bladed screwdrivers around the edges. You can find them at the checkout counter at a Sears Hardware Store for less than a buck, very handy for all kinds of things at work, the car, or at home. No blades on it.
i slip mine behind the binding of my jeps chart, between the metal and the outer skin, its masked by the binding there, no one's noticed/said anything about it yet
 

FN FAL

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Machinegun on a key ring?

Believe it or not, I was reading a post on www.subguns.com a while back where one of the posters was explaining how he took a key ring full of machinguns through TSA screening and onto a flight and was never stopped. It seems with all these stories, that airline pilots with flashlights and toe nail clippers are the big threat to aviation security.

To explain how a person could possess a key ring full of machineguns is quite simple. HK sears in most cases are the BATF registered part of HK machineguns (the alternate to this would be a registered reciever or registered trigger pack). This would be the serial numbered part that requires BATF approval and is considered "the machinegun" when it comes to the technicallity of lawful possession. The sears are small and have an area in them that would allow someone to slip them onto a split ring commonly used for key rings.

This individual was the lawfull registered owner of the sears and had his form 5320's in with the BATF, allowing interstate travel with them. Obviously, if these sears are not installed in an HK trigger pack and attached to an HK rifle with a full auto bolt, they appear to the layperson as just a small piece of metal. In regards to the BATF, and NFA firearms laws, they themselves are considered machnineguns.

I personally don't know the guy...I had read the post on subguns and found it interesting.

BTW, it is lawful transport registered machineguns as checked in luggage on an airliner, just as one would any other firearm.
 

:-)

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Dash8 said:
i slip mine behind the binding of my jeps chart, between the metal and the outer skin, its masked by the binding there, no one's noticed/said anything about it yet
I also carry contraband metal into security, but I'm dang sure not going to say where on a public forum.

The metal is about .030" thick, 1.5" wide and 14" long. It could be sharpened into a knife, or just pointed to make a dagger. It is neither, but it could be.

Security is a JOKE

:)
 
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vetteracer

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I jumped on NWA pre 9-11 to meet some friends in MIA for a scuba diving trip. Had my dive bag and a small personal bag. I had a 14 inch dive knife with a small hammer on the handle in my bag. Was missed by security 3 times. And this was all in the cockpit when I was jumpin.

TSA is such a joke, knee jerk reaction. It is no more efficient then it was 10 years ago.

This is one of the reason people are not flying. They cannot take the Gestapo, rude, cattle chute shuffle lines, long waits, talking their shoes off, being treated like a criminal, scared they are going to miss their flight due to finding a nail clipper. It goes on and on.

Fix this, and people will start to fly again.

Mark

 

C425Driver

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On a recent trip through Grand Rapids, I witnessed my tax dollars at work making our airports safer. As we were leaving the terminal, we walked by the TSA agent who was guarding the exit, supposedly making sure that no one would try to sneak in through the out door. Was he monitoring the exit? No. Was he reviewing procedures? No. Was he scanning for potential security threats? You guessed it. He was, however, sitting there diligently sorting his M&M's by color. He seemed to have relatively few green M&M's as compared to yellow M&M's and I wanted to get out of there before the full nature of this security issue was realized.

What a joke!
 

vetteracer

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C425driver,

That seams to be the norm VS the exception. That is what you get with any large rudderless government operation. If you were in the private sector you would be fired. Seams that many of these government jobs are homes for misfit toys. All on our tax dollar. I wonder how many people in this country actually make there living from the private sector, pay taxes and have a revenue-creating job. Oh yeah it is 35%.

Mark

 
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