More Mesaba News

[ClippedWings]

Northwest has filed motions in the bankruptcy court, some of which have been approved, that give it the authority to reject leases of the aircraft in its fleet, including 35 Avros and 49 of Mesaba's Saabs.

Source: Company letter from John Spanjers

Sounds like more scare tactics

 

[Joe Patroni]

October 20, 2005
Dear Colleagues:
I want to take this opportunity to address recent motions filed by Northwest Airlines in
their bankruptcy court proceedings and subsequent news articles.
Like other airlines that have gone through the Chapter 11 re-organization process,
Northwest is analyzing its flights schedules and fleet, considering the projected demand
for air travel, maintenance requirements, labor costs, other operating costs and business
goals and objectives.
Northwest has said that while they do not anticipate any material change to their core hub
structure, the airline will be smaller. With fuel at record high prices, Northwest needs to
both adjust capacity and achieve market-based costs for any aircraft that remains in the
fleets that it and its Northwest Airlink partners operate.
Northwest has filed motions in the bankruptcy court, some of which have been approved,
that give it the​

[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]authority [/FONT]to reject leases of the aircraft in its fleet, including our 35 Avros
and 49 of our Saabs. [FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]In its legal filings, the airline also says that if the lease or debt
terms were revised, the same aircraft could be of benefit to the airline. [/FONT]The airline’s
schedules for January and beyond, and the size of the fleet that will be needed to support
it, are still under review.
I understand how this information creates anxiety as well as the spread of rumors – I urge
you to do your best to stay focused on operating a safe and reliable airline. We will
update you on facts regarding any changes to our fleet as soon as they are available.
I hope this addresses some of your questions and concerns. And thank you for your work
on the ground and air.
John Spanjers
President & COO​

​

 

[mnalpha]

they wont get rid of the turboprops, they make to much $$ for em. I hope you guys dont bend TOO much. We gave, and now that USair is out of BR there is no way they will give us anything back even though we (piedmont) has only ever made them money. bastards, hang in there guys

 

[gnx99]

Thanks for posting that, I couldn't get it to load on MyMesaba.

35 Avros and 49 Saabs. That would leave us with 7 Saabs and 2 CRJs?! Sounds like BS to me.

 

[avrodriver]

The second motion is available at http://chapter11.epiqsystems.com/WebPortal/ViewDocument.aspx?DocumentPk=6a938288-5506-4064-bb5f-d0821b0d95ff.

It covers 10x B747-400, 5x B747-200F, 23x A320, 4x A319, 15x CRJ, 49x Saab 340B


Either way some of the aircraft on this list may leave, but I doubt if all of them will. If you read the link above it clearly paints a picture that "If you give us better rates these aircraft might actually be worth keeping" (rolling eyes).

AD

 

[Waylon]

I have a couple of questions and thoughts on this whole deal. Do you think they want to get rid of Mesaba all together and start Newco at Mair. Would our scope protect us in that situation? It sounds kind of crazy but maybe that is why XJ filed and not Mair, a way to keep the stock price from going down. Are they parking the 13 saabs or returning them. Just a couple of questions I have with my morning cup of coffee.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

I have a couple of questions and thoughts on this whole deal. Do you think they want to get rid of Mesaba all together and start Newco at Mair. Would our scope protect us in that situation? It sounds kind of crazy but maybe that is why XJ filed and not Mair, a way to keep the stock price from going down. Are they parking the 13 saabs or returning them. Just a couple of questions I have with my morning cup of coffee.

The scope clause is with MAIR, so it should hold. Why would they want to get rid of us? Mesaba (and 9E) is NW's very own low cost carrier. The industry loves turboprops right now, and guess who has a bunch. Yup - us.

Maybe they want to replace the 340s with Q400s. They would look dang cool with some silver paint and a red tail.

I think that we are getting picked on because we are getting set up for NEWCO (good or bad).

I did hear a rumor that Colgan announced they are getting 10 of our Saabs. I can't find any info to back that up. Any Colgan pilots hear anything like that?

 

[Jimdandy]

Crunk are you out of touch or what.

Dude if Newco comes here we won't be flying it. Why? Because if we did Nwa pilots would walk and NWA mgmt can't have that. So what do they do get our scope thrown out the window with this bankruptcy and then let them be the new pilots on Newco.

If we lose scope or successorship or any of that stuff we are screweddddddddddddddddddd.

Ohh and mesaba would love to get rid of us and have big sky pilots flying at big sky rates. We are just one step shy of becoming the next great lakes.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

A: Or what.

If you and I lost our jobs for Newco, it would be bad. I'm sounding out possibilities, like J4J.

How would NW pilots walk if Newco was started through MAIR? It could only happen after changing scope for NWA. You're also assuming that our scope would be abrogated. If that's the case, then who's to say our pay rates wouldn't be gone to?

It would be bad if we lost scope, pay, and our jobs. I'll give you that. I don't want shiny jets on property if it means we only see them from the outside. From the ground. Looking up from a van. Down by the river.

 

[JPAustin]

Look at the 1113c

I don't want to sound overly aggravated here, but right now I feel like the people on this board who get upset when a poster does not do an adequate search. I usually think about those people "get over it, don't be an ass", but in this recurring case, I kind of know how they feel.

Out of all the Mesaba/NWA speculation on these boards there seem to be two camps of posters, those who do some research and those who post wild "he said she said so it must be true" tripe and they seem to honestly believe in it. Any answers to this NWA bankruptcy/MAIR bankruptcy can be answered by the judge's decisions, Form 8Ks, and the 1113c filing. Any other information is pure speculation and, while fun to sling back and forth as theory racing, becomes absolutely ridiculous when those posting the speculation swear by them. Its about as bad as watching the message boards on the finance boards about MAIR and NWACQ.PK.

Okay, venting aside, I implore people to read the facts before wildly throwing around their theories based on heresay. A lot of posters are probably affected by these bankruptcies and scared to death about what might happen, but in times like these the facts can be comforting, almost like closure. Bad or good, atleast then you know what your fate MIGHT be based on the facts.

Now for the flamers. I know I know, whats the fun of flightinfo.com without rumor swapping! I agree in most cases. Right now I just feel for those posters in cases like these and hope to instill that the facts DO exist on these boards, they just happen to be glossed over in favor of wild specuation and media hype.

 

[oiltycoon]

The bankruptcy judge is really trying to say All your airplanes are belong to us! unless you take a massive paycut.

 

[Workin'Stiff]

Frankly, I'm more worried about the fact that NW hasn't secured DIP financing yet. No one wants to throw their money at NW when there are WAAAAYYY too many variables still out there. Things take a bad turn pretty quickly with out that.

 

[xjjetdog]

I believe NWA is self-financing their own bankruptcy. They don't need DIP financing in traditional terms. It's unusual, but I think that's the case.

 

[JPAustin]

Xjetdog, you are exactly correct. NWA is in fact financing their own bankruptcy. Beyond that, because NWA is in bankruptcy, NWA's credit worthiness actually goes up. In that light, securing more money beyond the bankruptcy (for example, securing additional 70-100 seat aircraft) will make the bankruptcy go a whole lot smoother than otherwise. Unfortunately for labor, it won't seem any different

 

[Jimdandy]

Crunk,

I believe you asked why or how would NWA pilots walk if newco flying went to someone else. Easy - they have 2 options first negotiate a new deal with NWA mgmt - they won't agree to anything that doesn't grant them sole rights to fly Newco's 100 seaters, if NWA mgmt refuses to negotiate this deal then the Judge will force a contract on them. If this new deal forced on them has no Newco flying the pilots have the right to Strike NWA.

 

[Mysteryofflight]

Ok ok, here's MY perspective... John Spandex was so furious after the Q&A portion of the conference call that he decided to up the stakes by announcing the possible parking of more Saabs. It's his way to tell the DTW and MSP CA's to piss off for asking the wildly humorous questions about how he can sleep at night. I especially liked how he never actually answered the question regarding the "promise" not to accept any bonuses for labor concessions. He got his panties in a bunch and the latest letter is his way of telling the pilot group where to stick it..... I can only hope we have another conference call in the near future, I'll bring the beer you bring the questions!!

 

[Workin'Stiff]

If NW isn't planning on acquiring DIP financing, why is NW ALPA so concerned about it? They stated that if NW doens't acquire that financing, there is the possibility that they will utilize 1113(e). If I'm not mistaken, that's the section that allows immediate contractual action to be placed on the employees inorder to avert Chapter 7...

 

[captpetefam]

Damn Pilots

Spandex inner thoughts:

They told me when I left my dispatcher job for this Pres/COO position that all these pilots are stupid and wouldn't ask any questions! I can't beleive this! They actually are figuring things out for themselves! I better do what the big-man tells me and try to scare them some more.

"Alright - Now NWA is INTENDING to TERMINATE the leases on all the Avros and 49 Saabs leaving Mesaba with a total fleet of 16 aircraft. This is not the fault of NWA who quit paying us what they said they would; this is the fault of all the Pilots getting paid too much." I always KNEW those pilots were just unwanted expenses.

"I understand how this information creates anxiety as well as the spread of rumors – I urge you to do your best to stay focused on operating a safe and reliable airline."

​

John Spanjers
President & COO

Now THAT should do it. Now they should stop asking questions that make my brain hurt and just take it like a man... in prison! HEHEHEHEHE imp:
​

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

If this new deal forced on them has no Newco flying the pilots have the right to Strike NWA.

You have something there, Jimbo! I guess I might just have to agree with JPAustin, that everything we will know will only come down from a judge.

But, I also like puzzles and wild speculation. Therefore, if you really read the 1113c (i.e. run it through a few scientific processes involving chicken entrails and tarot cards), you will come up with:

"Mesaba will fly SpaceShip2 for Virgin Galactic. Satan Banana."

 

[JPAustin]

SpaceShip2 would be cheap!!!

You have something there, Jimbo! I guess I might just have to agree with JPAustin, that everything we will know will only come down from a judge.

But, I also like puzzles and wild speculation. Therefore, if you really read the 1113c (i.e. run it through a few scientific processes involving chicken entrails and tarot cards), you will come up with:

"Mesaba will fly SpaceShip2 for Virgin Galactic. Satan Banana."

Well, paying labor costs for SpaceShip2 would be rather easy AND cheap... the motors are only turning for a few minutes. Once the motors stop, you don't have to pay the pilot anymore! Afterall, that is the traditional logic for paying a pilot, by the hobbs meter, so it will take YEARS of union arbitrating to change that definition, and like scope, managment knows the pilots will pay up the nose for that kind of protection!