More Furloughs at CAL/CALEX

Prop Trash

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Just when we thought things we could see the light at the end of the tunnel, managment announced today that they are going to eliminate 100 more pilots from the list at Continental. What does this mean? More CAL pilots will be flying more CAL routes in CALEX jets at CALEX pay! That also means that up to 100 additional CALEX pilots will be on the street. When it's all over, said, and done with, 500 CALEx pilots will have been furloughed. My question is - has any other airline in the U.S. furloughed this many pilots? United, Delta, American, Northwest, Eagle, etc.? Does anyone have the numbers?
 

Tim47SIP

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A very close freind of mine just emailed me to let me know that united is going to lay off between 1500-2000 pilots starting Mar 2002 and finishing up at the end of the year. This does not include the ones already furloughed. He has been with United since 1991. He was a 727 CPT and was sent back to the right seat of the 75/76. He is now going to being sent to the right seat of a A3??. Ya I know he still has a job, but that is a lot of furloughed pilots! God Bless them!
 

SheGaveMeClap

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Hey CW, I don't think the question is whether or not another airline has furloughed 500 pilots, I think the question is whether another airline has furloughed 25% of it's pilot force. Good old Gordon, always "Working Together," isn't he? What a prick.
 

nimtz

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Okay management has made the first move for contract time. Fine then! Will see how Gordo and his slick headed, f/a knocking up self feels when we ground his money ticket. Oh no all the sudden those stickers on every airplane about being a Fortune 500 Best Place to Work won't make for much sense. Don't buy the kool-aid. Any resentment at our pay and treatment at Coex has only been magnified by this b/s they dumped on us. All Gordo talks about is how nicely things are turning around and that profitablity comes back in the 2nd quarter. Well @sshole, I won't forget this come contract time! Work Hard, Fly Right! Shafted Hard, Feels Right!
 

walkthasky

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oh well..

all i got was a class date and that was taken from me. from all the chatting it seemed like people were thinkin that things would improve by the end of the year. oh well!!!
 

captjim

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Hopefully come self help time this pilot group will be unified. I know that my expectations for an industry leading contract have increase after this hell that managment has put us through. THIS IS WAR!:mad:
 

publisher

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???

you all seem to think this is some kind of tactic --- have you been out in the system lately,,,I was at Dulles yesterday and no self respecting terrorist would bother. It was empty.

The flights I was on had loads of 90, 35, 49, and 60 passengers on a DC9. Security is such a pain in the -- that who wants to fly at all.
 

TurboS7

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I feel for you guys being furloughed but you can't let yourself be bitter it will eat you up. Use this time to be contructive, use it to build solid relationships, take long walks and do a lot of thinking.There is nothing worse than a pilot getting his/her wings clipped so I would do whatever to get in the air again. Go do something fun, fly Lears, do whatever. Before you know it you'll be getting a recall notice and you'll be back in the saddle again with a greater apprecaition for your job. I always fly a trip like it will be my last and I am going to retire tomorrow. Never take the wonders of flight and being paid for it for granted, just don't let management know you enjoy it so much, or you will be doing it for nothing. Cheers;)
 

scottm

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Publisher

" Jan 3rd the company's load factor was reported as 83.7% MTD as of Jan 2nd, Then from the email on the 4th they reported load factor as of the 3rd as 83.9% MTD. Then todays email showed loads for the 4th as 81.9, the 5th as 87.6 and the 6th as 84.9 %. "

CALs load factors are not the issue. Flights are full and they have spent quite a bit of money buying passengers hotels and meals lately because of oversells. The problem is rooted in the yield. Until ticket prices are raised, profitability requires a very high load percentage.

I am in agreement that this is managements ploy to set themselves up for contract 2K2. They have been announcing a profit expected by the 2nd quarter, stock rose above $30, still continuing deliveries of 51 jets this year. If they show they are making money, share holders are happy, but oh wait, if they show a profit the pilots can expect more money. Well, lets furlough 100 more and we'll tell them we dont have any money to give. This is BULLS**T! They are playing with people's lives. I have been on furlough for 3 months and expected to be back by Sept. which was announced in the CALEX pres' voice mail. Now I will be lucky if I touch an airplane this year. I have an interview coming up and before I said I probably wouldn't take the job. Now, I am not even going to look back. This company has shown its true colors when placed under pressure, they dont car about the employees, they tell you what you want to hear to get the job done. I hope you guys still on property stick it to them and when it gets dirty, I'll be on Smith Street with my sign.
 

I.P. Freley

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One of my best friends is a furloughed CoEx guy, who was thinking about flinging himself off the roof when he still thought he wasn't going to be recalled 'til October...

Uh-oh, now there's no answer at his house or on his cell phone...

After reading THIS good news, I guess I should swing by his house and remove all the ladders so he can't get up there!!
 

RichardFitzwell

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Airline of the Year for 2001??

This is the latest email sent to me concerning CAL...

Furlough Numbers to Increase

Proving once again that the public message and the facts don’t match,
management informed your Negotiating Committee Tuesday morning of further
furloughs within the pilot group, in an effort to reduce the Flight
Operations budget by approximately $10 million for 2002.

Management indicated that they would announce a new system bid later this
week, with plans to furlough an additional 100 Continental pilots –
approximately 50 March 1 and the balance April 1. Continental Express
management has indicated their furlough numbers would be in excess of
Continental’s. These new furloughs come on top of the 826 previously
furloughed Continental and Continental Express pilots.

“While the Company is trumpeting supposed successes on Wall Street, the
realities of ‘working together’ are being borne once again
disproportionately by the pilots of Continental and Continental Express,”
stated CAL ALPA MEC Vice Chairman John Prater, “This comes at a time when
the Company is reporting record load factors, improved revenues, and
recalling flight attendants, gate agents and ramp workers.”

Since the events of September, your Negotiating Committee has presented
various detailed cost saving proposals, from early retirements, COLAs,
reductions in line values and other staffing changes that, by management’s
own estimates, could have saved over $25 million, only to have each of these
proposals rejected.

In contrast, management at Delta, Northwest and United have all “worked
together” with their ALPA representatives to mitigate the number of
furloughs. Various industry standard contractual provisions at these
carriers reduce the number of junior manning events, reduce the ability to
flex pay caps and line divisors prior to the furlough of pilots and make
non-flying lines of time with reduced (55 hours) pay values a viable
alternative to furloughs. The impacts of these contractual provisions are
significant to providing job security. For example, Delta, with twice the
number of pilots, has furloughed approximately the same number of pilots as
Continental. Northwest, which has approximately the same level of pilot
staffing as Continental, has furloughed less than half the number of pilots.
Both of these carriers have reduced their flight schedules by the same
percentage as Continental.

Continental management is aware of these proactive solutions, but believe
they know how to run a better airline. In fact, they have worked
unilaterally over the past 6 to 8 weeks on micro-managing the staffing
levels based on the flexible provisions of Contract ’97, but have only been
willing to discuss the details of their final staffing plan just before the
bid is supposed to be issued.

Adding to the sense of finality, neither the Senior VP of Operations,
Captain Debbie McCoy, nor Senior VP of Human Resources and Labor Relations,
Mike Campbell, attended the Monday meeting. Only vague suggestions to meet
after the bid is issued were offered by the members of management present.

Management is clearly counting on the pilot groups’ distress over their
reduction in pay status to result in a willingness to accept higher line
divisors during summer months, increased junior manning levels, increased
utilization of reserves, and to tout this forthcoming bid as an “increase”
in flying. In fact, the forthcoming bid represents approximately 20% less
staffing than the 02-07 bid. Management’s ability to successfully operate a
record holiday schedule, given our lack of contractual provisions to
mitigate furloughs, makes the decision to resume the furlough of pilots all
the more attractive from an accounting standpoint. The decisions of
management would appear to be a return to the “bean counter” mentality of
the 1990s.
Management’s consolation to the next group of furloughed pilots is, “They
will be out the shortest time period.” Management indicated no recalls would
occur before 2003 at the earliest, and there was no guarantee that these
furloughs would be the last, as two of the “queens of the skies – the
B-777s” are being removed from the schedule and parked for the remainder of
2002.

More information will be provided when the final bid numbers become
available. Based on the initial estimates, the senior furloughed pilot will
be from the August 1998 Continental class. That individual may be able to
hold RJ Captain until the subsequent CALEX reduction bid, which may reflect
the removal of the remaining turboprop aircraft from the CALEX system.
-- END --
 

Smoking Man

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Prop Trash

U.S. Airways has 880 pilots on the street. Buy the time they are done there will be 1350. If things go as planned.

Regards

Smoking Man
 

Skywalker

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Eagle has furloughed 304 so far with staffing around 2700 before 9/11...
 

Flydaplane

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furloughs

Earlier it was asked which airline had furloughed more than 25% of its pilots. The answer...Midwest Express.... sort of...rough numbers. Initially managment announced 135-140 furloughs which was about 35%. That was reduced to 102 about a month later (around 27%-again rough estimates). I think the last group of 15 were furloughed on Dec. 1. Now word is that 33 will be recalled by April 15. Obviously management overreacted (or they still don't know what they're doing), hopefully CAL's, UAL's, AA's, DAL's, and everyone else's managements did too.

I've found work in the airport and the flights are definately leaving full. Its common to see 10-20 people getting bumped... Is this saving money? Hotels, meals, compensation money (I got bumped and got a free future round trip and $150 from UAL), pissed off passengers. Hopefully we'll all by flying again soon.
 

James007

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Perhaps I am missing something. We all know that for the most part management sucks. But putting aside the fact that usually what is good for management is bad for the pilot group whats wrong with them trying to manage their cost. A pilot has to be the most expensive human factor of a flight. It seems to be pretty simple , if they dont have enuff pilots or pilots willing to work overtime to fly the flights it will cost them more than to have a few extra pilots on standby. So why are they bastages ( worse than normal?).
Jim
P.S. This was not meant as flame bait! All I was wondering was how could a company could screw its pilot group with excess layoffs and fly the routes it wants to?
 

Marko Ramius

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James007.

You aren't missing anything, but unfortunately this game is about power and not common sense. You probably have seen me on these boards grumpily arguing that furloughed major pilots should be given fair interviews at the regionals. Many regional pilots have rebutted me, with financial and logical reasons why this shouldn't be done. Their reasoning is solid, but I don't believe that is the real reason behind management's ignorance of us. This game is about power and positioning, and that's what's happening to us, and is the ultimate answer to your question. For example, ACA says that they are hiring in March. Let's say HYPOTHETICALLY, that they and the other regionals start calling people like me for interviews between now and mid February, and they hire a bunch of us without resigning our numbers. If that happened, most people at my airline would say, hey everything's OK, the furloughees have "interim" jobs and they'll be back someday. The union then agrees to pay concessions, and ludicrous scope ammendments. Seem farfetched, ask anybody who is junior at UAL or any other carrier if it couldn't happen. The pressure is high on people like me right now, if it's released around the time concession negotiations occur, it will weaken UAL ALPA's position and following. Carriers like ACA/Air Wis/Skywest all have their training costs covered by UAL, what do they care about hiring furloughees? The situation is the same at DAL. Comair wants 500 new hires, what happens to the scope sentiment if Comair et al. all of sudden start hiring DAL furloughees. This jig is all a power game on both sides of the ball: management and union. The sooner you pick up the game, the sooner you can be a good player.
 

Mallard

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I just wish I was furloughed. At Chautauqua, they fired 125 pilots (25%). Time will tell if our union can get that changed, but I'm not holding my breath.
 

Cornelius

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Mallard, did I read you correctly that they fired 25%? I guess that means no recall rights when they need more pilots. Do you know why they did that? Thats a real bummer!

Good Luck.
 

Cardinal

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Parking two 777's!!! Combined that has to be approx 3.6 million per month in interest/lease payments being pissed away. Oh my...
 
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