More DL Judge Remarks - Interesting...

[michael707767]

And as you know, despite the fact that we are parties to the bankruptcy, no one is there to represent us and our own union is clearly against us.

I don't believe you are parties to the bankruptcy. The only thing I have found is "ASA Holdings" which was an basically a shell company still in existance to finalize the sale of ASA. Skywest and/or ASA may be party to the bankruptcy, but that does not mean the ASA pilots are party to it. But I may be wrong. If I am wrong, why are you not there? Nothing the Delta pilots or ALPA itself could do can stop the ASA pilots from being heard by a BK judge if they are in fact a party to the BK.

Either way, if Delta wants to right size aircraft to the market, fine. They can buy all the 79 or 90 seat aircraft they want. But to fly them with more than 70 seats, they have to be flown here.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Ok, let me get this straight, the RJ, the bane of the industry and everybody's whipping post is now going to save Delta? A 79 seat aircraft is not going to save the company. After riding on Airtran, I think Delta should be looking at the south side of concourse "C" for guidance.
I truly hope Delta can turn things around and become a vibrant, profitable airline. I just don't see how a 79 seat aircraft will do that. Thoughts? Cheers-

Wil: It isn't about saving Delta. It is about pride, arrogance and greed. Notice that no one is focused on International Code Share, or the 787. Delta has fostered an environment where employee groups are pitted against eachother and the acrimony and hatred is palpable, especially at bases like CVG. I think this will be one of the reasons for Delta's eventual (I was going to write failure, but they are already a failed business enterprise) absence from the marketplace. Instead of finding solutions, Delta and its subsidiaries have legions of managers who work endlessly at shifting blame to their alter ego competitors rather than serving the customers. (This is getting a lot better recently, but it may be a case of too little, too late) Cheers to AirTran. One thing Delta employees seem to agree on is that they like AirTran more than they like each other.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I don't believe you are parties to the bankruptcy. But I may be wrong. If I am wrong, why are you not there? Nothing the Delta pilots or ALPA itself could do can stop the ASA pilots from being heard by a BK judge if they are in fact a party to the BK.

</p>ALPA is our bargaining agent also. They have written that only they can represent us and put Delta on notice, so technically we are there, our bargaining agent is Benedict Arnold, oops I mean, ALPA.

 

[FDJ2]

</p>ALPA is our bargaining agent also.

Except ALPA is your bargaining agent with your employer ASA, a wholly owned subsidiary of Skywest. ALPA is not your bargaining agent with DAL.

 

[Dizel8]

The twist and turns in this story are fascinating.

We have people from ASA, a company, for all practical purposes, now owned by Skywest, who feels cheated because mainline pilots wants the 900. Seems to me, to make as much sense as ASA being mad about what Eagle flies. ASA is now just another contract carrier to DAL, they get wants DAL wants them to and are not entitled to anything. I think, that if anyone should be upset, it would be the Comair pilots.

Second, we have DAL management being so hotheaded, that they would go so far, as to fly the 900 with just 70 seats, just to keep it away from mainline. The 900 might make money with 79 seats, but with 70, who knows, but it certainly would be less profitable. Why management does not sit down with the DAL MEC and work out a payscale on the 900 is beyond me.

 

[Noserider76]

Delta needs to quit wasting money on RJs. Cancel the RJ orders and buy a good 100 seat mainline aircraft. We have already lost 1/3 of our jobs and spent billions of dollars buying airplanes for other companies to fly. It's time to get back control of our product.

 

[Midnight Mike]

Has she done a 180???

No, the Judge has always called it down the line & does not favor sides.

 

[General Lee]

Actually General is right on the money. The Delta MEC is making a grab for airplanes currently on order and on a delivery schedule for ASA. If ALPA remains intransigent, then the airplanes will still come, but in a 70 seat configuration. Note: These quotes come from a Delta pilot source, so I can not confirm their authenticity, but they sound accurate.

MR. GALLAGHER: We'd have to get permission to increase the size of our regional jets from seventy which is the limit in the current ALPA agreement to seventy-nine, and to increase the number of those regional jets -- THE COURT: Okay. And how many -- MR. GALLAGHER: -- from a hundred and -- THE COURT: -- how many seventy-nine-seat planes do you own at this time? MR. GALLAGHER: At this time, Your Honor, ASA which is one of our contract now formally -- now a contract carrier has seventeen CRJ-900s on order -- THE COURT: Well, that don't make any difference to me what you call them, because I don't know what they are. MR. GALLAGHER: Well, Your Honor, these are aircraft that are certificated for up to ninety seats which Delta would propose to fly in a two-class configuration with seventy-nine seats. If we are unable to do that, Your Honor, we will fly them with seventy seats. They will still be flown by ASA pilots at ASA pay rates, but with seventy seats in them instead of seventy-nine. We think that is simply an economic waste when we could generate revenue from that. THE COURT: Well, see, I think that this is what you and the union need to be talking about because this is what the union is not happy with.

Fins,

Just because they were ordered, doesn't mean they met the scope clause provisions. If SkyWest orders some 757s for you too, does that mean it is wrong for us to protest them? Could we not try to secure all of the 757 orders? It was all in the scope clause, and 79 seat airplanes were not and currently are not allowed.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Wil: It isn't about saving Delta. It is about pride, arrogance and greed. Notice that no one is focused on International Code Share, or the 787. Delta has fostered an environment where employee groups are pitted against eachother and the acrimony and hatred is palpable, especially at bases like CVG. I think this will be one of the reasons for Delta's eventual (I was going to write failure, but they are already a failed business enterprise) absence from the marketplace. Instead of finding solutions, Delta and its subsidiaries have legions of managers who work endlessly at shifting blame to their alter ego competitors rather than serving the customers. (This is getting a lot better recently, but it may be a case of too little, too late) Cheers to AirTran. One thing Delta employees seem to agree on is that they like AirTran more than they like each other.

The judge has focused on International code share, lowering block hours, and the 79 seat jet. She said they all have value, and has ordered Gallegher to come up with a costing model for each of those, which he is slow in doing. She won't allow them to be just given away for free, and neither will we.

As far as the 787, I posted that article from the Seattle Observer stating our supposed interest in the 787 one day. That would be great to see a Delta 787 in the line up right behind a DELTA 79 seater waiting to take off. Ah, what a fantasy! I need to run ot the bathroom NOW!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Ok, let me get this straight, the RJ, the bane of the industry and everybody's whipping post is now going to save Delta? A 79 seat aircraft is not going to save the company. After riding on Airtran, I think Delta should be looking at the south side of concourse "C" for guidance.
I truly hope Delta can turn things around and become a vibrant, profitable airline. I just don't see how a 79 seat aircraft will do that. Thoughts? Cheers-

Wil,

I like Airtran's 717 and service too. We shold focus on those too, but we don't know if Delta would negotiate a rate for some 100 seater and then not order it (like our rates for the 737-700 and 737-900---where are those?), and then just get a bunch of 79 seaters for DCI (200) and totally replace our 737-200 flying. Our current 100 seater (actually 105) is the 737-200.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[spinproof]

Except ALPA is your bargaining agent with your employer ASA, a wholly owned subsidiary of Skywest. ALPA is not your bargaining agent with DAL.

Nor should it scope out any other member!

 

[General Lee]

Nor should it scope out any other member!

Remember, Delta has feed, and that is what ASA/SkyWest/Comair/Mesa/Chataqua do for us---provide feed. They aren't supposed to do compete with US. Come on now.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ATRCA]

Delta needs to quit wasting money on RJs. Cancel the RJ orders and buy a good 100 seat mainline aircraft. We have already lost 1/3 of our jobs and spent billions of dollars buying airplanes for other companies to fly. It's time to get back control of our product.

Here's a question. Everyone at DAL seems to believe that RJ's are one of the main reasons the company is in dire straights. How is it then that Continental which has more RJ's per mainline aircraft (270 to feed 330) than DAL is doing so well compard to its peers. Real question here, not slinging mud at anyone.

Opinions........

 

[rjcap]

Here's a question. Everyone at DAL seems to believe that RJ's are one of the main reasons the company is in dire straights. How is it then that Continental which has more RJ's per mainline aircraft (270 to feed 330) than DAL is doing so well compard to its peers. Real question here, not slinging mud at anyone.

Opinions........

YOU FOOL !!!!!


If we can't put all the blame on the RJ's and the Regional pilots who can we blame ??????

 

[On Your Six]

Wil,

I like Airtran's 717 and service too. We shold focus on those too, but we don't know if Delta would negotiate a rate for some 100 seater and then not order it (like our rates for the 737-700 and 737-900---where are those?), and then just get a bunch of 79 seaters for DCI (200) and totally replace our 737-200 flying. Our current 100 seater (actually 105) is the 737-200.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Everyone conveniently forgets that Delta currently operates a 100-seater - the 737-200. The E190 shouldn't be such a huge factor given that it contains roughly the same number of seats. DAL management and DALPA should just negotiate rates for the E175 - Air Canada mainline pilots will fly both the E175 and the E190... The precedent has already been set by Air Canada...