More Delta TA details......Even MORE!

[On Your Six]

Deleted. Sorry, my computer burped...

 

[Old Crow]

What exactly is pref. hiring. If Delta Bob gets furloughed, he can pick which airline he wishes to work, ASA or Comair?
Is there an interview requirement?

I can't believe that we even require an interview if so. Those Delta guys and gals are good!

 

[sandman2122]

Palerider said:

"Chill brother, chill. The DAL group is having to lick their wounds and adjust to some pretty major changes. I know I'd be pretty salty in their shoes, with a pretty short fuse."

Didn't you mean: "lick their balls..."

I kid, I kid, he, he

it's monday folks!!

 

[dtfl]

General, and other guys on property - with the road show coming up - I would like to know if this question has been answered or mentioned - How many pilot's will this PBS eliminate? Someone HAS to have run some numbers somewhere - but maybe they aren't telling?
I can't vote as I am furloughed - I understand most of the TA - but the fact that the PSB might reduce the number of pilots needed and the fact that the company will basically be able to furlough at will (I know what the TA says but lets be real - they can find a way - easily) would cause me to vote no.
HOW does the furlough section help Delta move toward profitability in the near term? I don't think it does. I think that section "sucks" to put it simply.
Please post any info.

 

[GoABX]

Will the change in retirement pay cause a last minute rush out the door for the old guys?

PBS is good only for Management and the very senior.

 

[wrigley23]

Curious about the -700 and -900 73s? Hadn't heard anything about this. Had a Delta pilot jumpseat last night and he thought the -200/-300/and 800(NG)s were all going bye bye so why the much larger 900?

 

[IFLYASA]

11 to 12 days off per month? That is what we had at ASA and Comair.

Pretty sad, but I am glad that DAL has avoided BK for now.

Actually at ASA the min days off per month is 10..We have alot of issues to resolve with management in our current contract, which will continue to take years to resolve. For now, the mainline pilots will set the new standards. Not much really to look forward to once the cycle starts back. At least we still have jobs and must do whatever it takes to protect them.

 

[sweptback]

Curious about the -700 and -900 73s? Hadn't heard anything about this. Had a Delta pilot jumpseat last night and he thought the -200/-300/and 800(NG)s were all going bye bye so why the much larger 900?

Why on earth would DL dump the -800s? I think he was mistaken.

Also note that the -900 has the same certificated seating capacity as the -800 does (albeit in an all-coach configuration). That's mainly the reason it hasn't been popular. DL would be wise to pass on the -900 unless they got really sweet deals on them, as it would be another orphan Boeing model in their fleet. There has always been talk of a -900X model with an extra emergency exit, as well as some more range, but it never gets launched.

 

[FDJ2]

General, and other guys on property - with the road show coming up - I would like to know if this question has been answered or mentioned - How many pilot's will this PBS eliminate? Someone HAS to have run some numbers somewhere - QUOTE]

The number I heard from one of my reps was 600. That being said, the company is already undermanned, and the number of early retirements is hard to predict. I doubt we'll see any additional furloughs if we stay out of BK, and the recall rate will probably depend more on the numbers of early retirements and whether or not Delta is able to execute its expansion plans for next year and beyond.

 

[bvt1151]

600 is a lot, especially when there's already 1000 on the streets. With 100 new 70-seaters, I'd really like to see some of those back to work at ASA/CMR. There are, however, many concerned (and rightly so) pilots about what that means, but I believe it is in the best interest of ALPA (as in national) to provide protections for both groups of pilots to prevent flying from being sent to Teamsters or non-union pilots. Hopefully some pride can be swallowed on both sides.

 

[spinproof]

You are really not going to like any form of PBS! It does not always honor seniority! The syntax you enter must be letter perfect and in order. Even then mayhem may follow!!!

 

[USCtrojan]

600 is a lot, especially when there's already 1000 on the streets. With 100 new 70-seaters, I'd really like to see some of those back to work at ASA/CMR. There are, however, many concerned (and rightly so) pilots about what that means, but I believe it is in the best interest of ALPA (as in national) to provide protections for both groups of pilots to prevent flying from being sent to Teamsters or non-union pilots. Hopefully some pride can be swallowed on both sides.

Totally agree, I hope we can work something out because a furloughed Delta pilot should not start at first year pay. I realize from management's standpoint that raises operating costs, but there has to be a way those can be absorbed. I mean, you're getting qualified pilots within the delta umbrella.

Trojan

 

[FlyComAirJets]

It should be quite simple integrating furloughed pilots at the bottom of an ASA/CMR list. There is already in place a fee for departure system in place for all DCI carriers including the whollly owneds. This accounting scheme would easily allow the difference between probationary pay and what a Delta furloughee would be paid to be placed on the mainline side of the ledger.

Since it is quite apparent that the furlughees are already taking it in the shorts with the recall delayed to '08, work rule changes, and (God forbid) a preferrential bidding system, it is about time that management gives them a little break.

 

[michael707767]

Curious about the -700 and -900 73s? Hadn't heard anything about this. Had a Delta pilot jumpseat last night and he thought the -200/-300/and 800(NG)s were all going bye bye so why the much larger 900?

either he misspoke or you did not hear correctly. The737-200, -300 and Gs are going away. The 800s are staying.

 

[JohnQ]

(God forbid) a preferrential bidding system

PBS is neither good nor bad. Each implementation and how the software is programmed is unique. It can be as bad or good as you make it. Ask any NWA guy if he is willing to give up his PBS system--usually it would be over his dead body. I have a friend who is furloughed from AMR, but was former TWA who could not believe the "shortsightedness" of American for NOT having a PBS. I know guys who LOVE PBS compared to traditional line of time bidding--and I know guys who hate it.

At DAL, PBS is coming. Unlike other places, (and unlike the system forced on our FAs, for example) PBS will not be "turned on" until next summer at the earliest, and then only after our ALPA PBS Working Group has approved turning it on.

Does that mean it will be all things to all people? Of course not. But it is not necessarily as evil as some might think.

 

[FlyComAirJets]

JohnQ,

I think you may have missed my point, each of the three things I mentioned, the delayed recall schedule, work rule changes that will have active pilots flying more, and the implementation of a preferrential bidding system, are going to delay recall of the furloughees for years Most people understand the effects of the first two but I wasn't sure if the potential impact of the third was understood.

As for the intrinsic merits of PBS, that should be examined in detail in a separate thread of its own. You and Spinproof are correct, properly implemented it can be a good thing but watch out for the details. Here at Comair they have been futiley trying to get a replacement for our Project Mercury-era SBS (honestly, it is writtern in Fortran!) for at least half a decade.

 

[michael707767]

PBS is neither good nor bad. Each implementation and how the software is programmed is unique. It can be as bad or good as you make it. Ask any NWA guy if he is willing to give up his PBS system--usually it would be over his dead body.

I have a buddy who flies for NW. He loves PBS. As JohnQ said, PBS is not good or bad. Neither was our old system. It's the implementation that matters. And on that we'll see.

 

[Russ]

There are issues at the basement level that determines if PBS will work as viewed from a pilot perspective, pairings, domicile size, variety of trip lengths, etc. It seems to work out for management without the tweaking (and software) required for it to work for the crews.

If the individual trips are lousy then a PBS bid will only provide you with a month of lousy trips.