More cuts at USAirways

[Thebadcat1313]

Your numbers are wrong, Lear's are spot on, as usual. All off the street and all whorely owned pilots will be gone, and then some.

Really? Actually, the numbers are from the list that came out just in the last few weeks directly from USAPA. There are 167 pilots at the bottom of the east (seperate and third) list who are either new hires or CEL, of which 14 show resigned, leaving 153. Furloughs were originally slated to go into them by 125 numbers leaving 28 still working. Now, that 125 number has supposedly been reduced into the 90's by some voluntary leaves, but it's still nowhere near getting into even the most junior previously furloughed US pilot. Meanwhile those of us on the west with over four years of continuous service are going to get the axe while USAPA does nothing. Remember, they represent us too, all this other crap not withstanding. You can't have it both ways by sending out bills and threatening letters and not providing representation at the same time.

BTW, there's nothing inconsistent with my numbers and Lears'.

 

[Thebadcat1313]

My guess is they will not if the TA in any way is associated with the nic or can be conceived as there being one list. The legal ramifications are obvious.

USAPA has inherited the duty of enforcing both east and west contracts and the TA. They want to have it both ways by picking and choosing which stuff they want to enforce, i.e. they want to enforce the provision that says the company can't use the Nicolau list until there is a combined contract but at the same time ignore things like the third and seperate list, block hour requirements and fleet minimums. It all comes down to a deck that has been stacked against the west from the get-go and a lack of integrity and fair dealing on the part of USAPA. They are setting themselves up for the mother of all DFR's in my opinion.

 

[Bringupthebird]

What are the ramifications of a DFR suit? Would a judge determine monetary damages, or would he reverse all the contractually agreed-to items and go back to square one and re-instate with back pay all the affected pilots? Would a judge take away USAPA's status as excusive bargaining agent? And if so, would the company then become non-union until a new union was elected?

 

[PlaneDrvr]

What are the ramifications of a DFR suit? Would a judge determine monetary damages, or would he reverse all the contractually agreed-to items and go back to square one and re-instate with back pay all the affected pilots? Would a judge take away USAPA's status as excusive bargaining agent? And if so, would the company then become non-union until a new union was elected?

Well, don't know that much about your issues in this case; however, DFR suits are normally very very difficult to prove and most often take years (years and years), just ask the ex-TWA guys.

 

[PCL_128]

12 hour duty days will result in more days at work and fewer days at home....

Bulls---. Our schedules are a hell of a lot better than yours, and we have a 12 hour max duty day.

 

[TWA Dude]

What are the ramifications of a DFR suit?

A DFR suit is a long-term strategy (read: black hole) with a high chance of failure. What does have some teeth is a court injunction to prevent immediate and obvious harm. If or when UCRAPPA and Management try to rework the seniority list to advantage the East (and why else would they try to rework it?) we have a very good case for an injuction. Stay tuned.

 

[eaglesview]

A DFR suit is a long-term strategy (read: black hole) with a high chance of failure. What does have some teeth is a court injunction to prevent immediate and obvious harm. If or when UCRAPPA and Management try to rework the seniority list to advantage the East (and why else would they try to rework it?) we have a very good case for an injuction. Stay tuned.

Management will go which ever direction they think will be the path of least resistance. Why would they do anything else? Please do not bore me with a rebuttal that has the word integrity, morality and airline management in the same sentence.

 

[Colonel Savage]

Bulls---. Our schedules are a hell of a lot better than yours, and we have a 12 hour max duty day.

Then I take it you guys don't sit around much on "productivity breaks"?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Bulls---. Our schedules are a hell of a lot better than yours, and we have a 12 hour max duty day.

I do 3 day trips....most of which are more than 12 hour days...The shorter the duty day, the less flying you can get in a day...The less flying you get in a day....the more days you have to work...

I thought you were doing continuos duty overnights so as to avoid 4 day trips? United and Delta do quite a few 4 day trips on the domestic flying.....It limits the ability to build effecient 3 day trips....Simple math folks...

 

[PCL_128]

I do 3 day trips....most of which are more than 12 hour days...The shorter the duty day, the less flying you can get in a day...The less flying you get in a day....the more days you have to work...

I thought you were doing continuos duty overnights so as to avoid 4 day trips? United and Delta do quite a few 4 day trips on the domestic flying.....It limits the ability to build effecient 3 day trips....Simple math folks...

Facts are facts, Joey. Our pilots get more days off, credit more, and are still limited to 12 hours max duty. A 4-day trip doesn't have to be low productivity. I don't know where you're coming up with that nonsense. Simple math: 8 hours/day X 4 days = 24 hours block. Add in some soft time and you can get by with only doing three of these a month. and still crediting way above guarantee. I hear your pilots whining constantly about 12-13 day off lines. Those are a rarity here. Almost every line is 15-18 days off with credit over 85. A limited duty day doesn't hurt your days off with efficient trips.