More CAL

[Flopgut]

They should apply elsewhere? Who are you to tell them where to apply? Especially when their "congratulations" letter mandates that in order to keep their job at CAL they have to stay at XJT. And some HAVE applied elsewhere...but last I checked, there are tens of thousands of pilots applying for hundreds of jobs.

This isn't about diversifying a hiring pool or not diversifying it...nobody at XJT has any issues with that idea.

-Neal

Who am I? I'm a CAL pilot who went to work for an airline where I thought I could start with a blank slate. I did not get that chance. I was immediately termed "off the street" and bitterly resented by every pilot at XJet (some more subtle than others). It is "germaine" to the conversation because this is an interview info board and this info should be revealed to applicants. Many applicants who have worked hard to avoid even the slightest appearance of stepping on others may want to excuse themselves from CAL recruiting if they have another option. There are so many different factions at CAL we can hardly stand another. If CAL takes 236 XJet pilots at once we will just have another faction that only cares about itself. If they can come in as part of a mixture of others perhaps this will be mitigated just a bit. Additionally, I think under those terms the airline should continue to hire from XJet, beyond the 236, which will be good for a lot of pilots. I have no real input, however, into this process. I can only talk to my rep and vote. If CAL has to take 236 at once, my support will be eclipsed.

Now, that all supposes that CAL is a survivor. That remains to be seen and goes to the other barb you shot at me: who am I to tell them where to apply? I have a current resume on standby. I am constantly looking at other job opportunities and considering other fields. I have had three job interviews in the past four years and have declined one job offer. My point: when these pilots come over to CAL, they will probably feel an increased urgency to keep the resume up to date. You think they are just going to miss out on earnings and years in the left seat; they might also be spared an ugly merger, bankruptcy, furlough, stagnation, asset sale, pay cuts, or you name it! These pilots will probably have to wait till they actually come over here to figure out what I'm trying to say. Advising them to try to go to FDX, UPS, etc. is pretty darn good advice. Even if they just hung out in their current seniority at XJet for a couple of more years it wouldn't be bad, they are all Captains and they aren't going to get furloughed.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Who am I? I'm a CAL pilot who went to work for an airline where I thought I could start with a blank slate. I did not get that chance. I was immediately termed "off the street" and bitterly resented by every pilot at XJet (some more subtle than others). It is "germaine" to the conversation because this is an interview info board and this info should be revealed to applicants. Many applicants who have worked hard to avoid even the slightest appearance of stepping on others may want to excuse themselves from CAL recruiting if they have another option. There are so many different factions at CAL we can hardly stand another. If CAL takes 236 XJet pilots at once we will just have another faction that only cares about itself. If they can come in as part of a mixture of others perhaps this will be mitigated just a bit. Additionally, I think under those terms the airline should continue to hire from XJet, beyond the 236, which will be good for a lot of pilots. I have no real input, however, into this process. I can only talk to my rep and vote. If CAL has to take 236 at once, my support will be eclipsed.

Now, that all supposes that CAL is a survivor. That remains to be seen and goes to the other barb you shot at me: who am I to tell them where to apply? I have a current resume on standby. I am constantly looking at other job opportunities and considering other fields. I have had three job interviews in the past four years and have declined one job offer. My point: when these pilots come over to CAL, they will probably feel an increased urgency to keep the resume up to date. You think they are just going to miss out on earnings and years in the left seat; they might also be spared an ugly merger, bankruptcy, furlough, stagnation, asset sale, pay cuts, or you name it! These pilots will probably have to wait till they actually come over here to figure out what I'm trying to say. Advising them to try to go to FDX, UPS, etc. is pretty darn good advice. Even if they just hung out in their current seniority at XJet for a couple of more years it wouldn't be bad, they are all Captains and they aren't going to get furloughed.

I understand what you are saying but the fact of the matter is...you and I both are in no position to tell anyone else how to run their career. If they want to hang out for CAL since they got a "congratulations" letter, that is their perogative. I can't say I agree or disagree with that outlook...but everyone is different with different personal situations.

That opinion notwithstanding, yes, XJT had its share of bitter FO's during that time period but guess what? We got our share of bitter (and ungrateful) flowbacks as well (which continued even past the point when they received a full retro check from XJT). It is the 2% that is always ruining it for everyone else. You might have taken a paycut from 737 FO to ERJ CA but put yourself in the shoes of the XJT pilot that went from ERJ CA to ERJ FO or even worse, from ERJ FO to on the street furloughee. We all made sacrifices. To lump all XJT pilots in one bucket is no better than when a pilot lumps all CAL pilots into "that" group we all know so well.

-Neal

 

[bizicmo]

Everyone seems to be quick to blame CAL for not taking XJT guys all at once. I heard a rumor that XJT management ask CAL not to take them all at once to help ease the loss of so many pilots.

 

[Flopgut]

I understand what you are saying but the fact of the matter is...you and I both are in no position to tell anyone else how to run their career.

I think you are getting this board confused with another one. Many people on here want accurate employment information. I'm not telling anyone how to run their lives. I am providing a fair minded characterization of my CAL experience as an off the street hire. The kind of info I wish I had received. Flop

 

[BluDevAv8r]

I think you are getting this board confused with another one. Many people on here want accurate employment information. I'm not telling anyone how to run their lives. I am providing a fair minded characterization of my CAL experience as an off the street hire. The kind of info I wish I had received. Flop

Nope, don't think so but still, last I checked I don't recall any of the XJT pilots with letters coming on here asking for advice on what they maybe "should" have done, etc...if someone was on here soliciting advice and opinions, that's one thing, but those guys were expressing their discontent over the situation at hand. Now if you are going to go on about how all XJT pilots that the CAL new hires will meet are this, that, and the other, I will vehemently disagree with you and provide the alternative viewpoint.

-Neal

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Everyone seems to be quick to blame CAL for not taking XJT guys all at once. I heard a rumor that XJT management ask CAL not to take them all at once to help ease the loss of so many pilots.

Not quite how it happened...Put it this way....XJT told CAL it was willing to release more than twice what CAL is currently taking per month. I can't and won't go into any more details than that.

The bottomline is like Flopgut said above, this thread/issue should die. The decision has been made by CAL and we must move on and live with it. Good luck to all that want to work at CAL and congratulations to the new hires.

-Neal

 

[Flopgut]

Nope, don't think so but still, last I checked I don't recall any of the XJT pilots with letters coming on here asking for advice on what they maybe "should" have done, etc...if someone was on here soliciting advice and opinions, that's one thing, but those guys were expressing their discontent over the situation at hand. Now if you are going to go on about how all XJT pilots that the CAL new hires will meet are this, that, and the other, I will vehemently disagree with you and provide the alternative viewpoint.

-Neal

Bullsh!t. There are a lot of people on here who want to learn what is going on but don't post. I wanted to throw in a few thoughts and flush out the contempt and disgust that exists in the CAL hiring process.

This is certainly a strange career. You go years/decades and no one wants to hire you. Then, when you get an opportunity often another comes at the same time, and you have to choose. Pilot applicants considering CAL should have an honest appraisal of the situation and this is my small contribution. Additionally, in the spirit of honest pilot recruitment advice, these 236 pilots should consider trying their luck elsewhere. That is just smart business. Just because they have a letter from CAL does not mean they will never write another resume or fill out a job application. It is a shocking slap in the face when you finally make it to a major and you spend most of your time describing to your co-workers how to apply to the job you just left. Or, the moment of realization that comes to you after getting out on the line and spending most of your time talking with captains about what they plan to do when the airline fails. Wouldn't you want to spare someone that? Do you just want them off the list in front of you? Or do you mostly want to disagree with me because I was hired off the steet?

 

[nimtz]

Wouldn't you want to spare someone that? Do you just want them off the list in front of you? Or do you mostly want to disagree with me because I was hired off the steet?

Okay, final straw. Neal for common sense purposes don't bother responding. This guy wishes to speculate on some off the street bias against him which doesn't exist. As you said, CAL made the choice and I think we can be happy at least CAL will take the PIGs even at a ratio. My best career advice for someone intresting in working for CAL is do not work for Expressjet before your CAL application is sent in.

Guess it's our fault for thinking we know what would bring the best future for our friends and contemporaries. Obviously Flopgut's seems unhappy with his choice of career and the fact that in three years he will be a solid lineholding widebody FO probably doesn't cheer him up. Therefore,

[lighting crashes]
I COMMAND THIS THREAD TO DIE!!!
[/lighting crashes]

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Sorry nimtz....

Do you just want them off the list in front of you? Or do you mostly want to disagree with me because I was hired off the steet?

Maybe you know me personally. Maybe you don't. But either way, posing either of these 2 questions to me is just flat out ridiculous. Given the content and tone of your posts, my guess is that you don't know me personally. That notwithstanding, I could care less that you were hired "OTS" (I don't differentiate/categorize the way you do obviously) and I could care less if all 236 guys stay at XJT (I'm quite happy with where I am on our seniority list and my quality of life at the moment).

-Neal

 

[Paul R. Smith]

Neal, your never flowing to CAL anyway...You would be 75 years old when your number came up...


Neal, fuggeddaboutit.

Its not worth it man.

 

[I Hate Freight]

Sorry nimtz....

and I could care less if all 236 guys stay at XJT -Neal

You mean you "couldn't" care less.

Sorry, I can't help it.

IHF

 

[Captain Overs]

Flopgut,


Get a clue dude!! Maybe the reason you think the XJT guys "Resented" you is because you were that prick off the street who thought they were too good to fly at XJT. I have many friends at XJT. Most don't want anything to do with CAL.

Warning to people who are thinking of going to CAL:

1) You'll fly with mostly ungrateful bitter CA's.
2) Constant fear of furlough
3) Company propaganda that matches the Bush Administration
4) Pay Cuts
5) Political infighting
6) Stagnation (CAL has tons of retirements, but has cut flying significantly since 9-11
7) An MEC that only cares about its personal agenda
8) See #4

You can try and make CAL look rosy, but you just want people under you to cushion your positon. And to say that if the PIG's went to CAL it would be another group that's only interested in their own interests. Are you serious? CAL has so many different pilot groups that you can't keep track of all the factions. At least the XJT guys were hired by XJT and share unity. CAL has: Braniff, Pan AM, Eastern, New York Air, Peoples Express, Texas International Airways and many other represented on their pilot seniority list. Who has unity?

 

[Waborita]

got our share of bitter (and ungrateful) flowbacks as well (which continued even past the point when they received a full retro check from XJT).

WHICH IS IS WHY I SAID AT MANY ROADSHOWS WE SHOULD HAVE PUT THE FLOWBACKS 2 MILLION DOLLARS IN RETRO INTO THE XJET CONTRACT 2002!

I NEW THEY WOLD NOT APPRECIATE IT AND IT WOULD NOT HELP US IN ANY WAY. DO YOU STILL THINK "IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO" NEAL?

 

[BluDevAv8r]

I NEW THEY WOLD NOT APPRECIATE IT AND IT WOULD NOT HELP US IN ANY WAY. DO YOU STILL THINK "IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO" NEAL?

98% of them did appreciate it and yes, it was the right thing to do. I don't let the 2% cloud my view of any particular "group." Our pilot group certainly has our share of the 2% as well.

-Neal

 

[imadumbpilot]

98% of them did appreciate it and yes, it was the right thing to do. I don't let the 2% cloud my view of any particular "group." Our pilot group certainly has our share of the 2% as well.

-Neal

As a former off the street flowback, who was bitter when furloughed I feel I must chime in.

First of all I was grateful to fly with such a great group guys. I flew as both captain and FO in my time at Express and 99% of the guys and gals I flew with were great.

I agree completly with Neal, it is always 2% ruining something for the 98% who are usually just coming to do their job the best of their ability.

I was very grateful to receive the retro check. It made a big difference in my life.

I am very happy to be back at CAL, my quality of life, and paycheck are much better.

I think that the PIGS are getting a raw deal, if they were hired through an interview, why should they be required to stay at Express? You're either hired or you're not, what does staying with your present employer have to do with any of that.

I agree with Flop gut in his assesment of the different factions at CAL, and he makes a strong argument about what happens if you bring them over as a group (read just another faction we have enough of that) I am glad to see they are all being given new employee numbers, so they can only be identified as CAL pilots.

It took me a little while to after I was furloughed to drop the bitterness, and just accept what had happened. Fortunatly, I was able to let it go over time. It made my experience at Express much more pleasant.

I would like to extend a big WELCOME ABOARD to all the Express pilots who are transitioning over to CAL, I look forward to being your co-worker once again. I would also like to welcome anyone who is being hired. Continental needs new blood to replace the old guard. There is simply to much history and the only way fix that is through hiring and attrition.

 

[Flopgut]

Flopgut,


Get a clue dude!! Maybe the reason you think the XJT guys "Resented" you is because you were that prick off the street who thought they were too good to fly at XJT. I have many friends at XJT. Most don't want anything to do with CAL.

Warning to people who are thinking of going to CAL:

1) You'll fly with mostly ungrateful bitter CA's.
2) Constant fear of furlough
3) Company propaganda that matches the Bush Administration
4) Pay Cuts
5) Political infighting
6) Stagnation (CAL has tons of retirements, but has cut flying significantly since 9-11
7) An MEC that only cares about its personal agenda
8) See #4

You can try and make CAL look rosy, but you just want people under you to cushion your positon. And to say that if the PIG's went to CAL it would be another group that's only interested in their own interests. Are you serious? CAL has so many different pilot groups that you can't keep track of all the factions. At least the XJT guys were hired by XJT and share unity. CAL has: Braniff, Pan AM, Eastern, New York Air, Peoples Express, Texas International Airways and many other represented on their pilot seniority list. Who has unity?

Uh...Have you been paying attention to this thread at all? You just halfway AGREED with me!

Furthermore, I did not think I was too good to fly at XJT. I did not even know XJT was in the picture! I just applied to an airline. I thought that is what you did. Which is the whole reason I even responded to this thread in the first place, so another applicant might learn something....because this is an interview board!

continued from above:
9) You will have to tolerate the eternally clueless