More ASA mediation sessions

[HarryParatestes]

The NMB is in the companies pocket. Two more sessions followed by two more sessions then NMB says "Get this done or two more sessions".

 

[ohplease!]

The NMB is in the companies pocket. Two more sessions followed by two more sessions then NMB says "Get this done or two more sessions".

now you're catching on...

 

[John Pennekamp]

Nothing will happen until the ASA pilots start to help themselves. Delta will not tolerate a slow-down. It would be in their best interest to get our contract signed. If Skywest Inc. could find enough pilots to replace us they would, but they can't. We have to slow it down. Write it up, taxi slow, and stop using cell phones. We will have a contract within a week! This opportuniy will not last long.

Bingo! Everyone needs to quit whining on Flightinfo and do something about it!

 

["GO AROUND"]

moronmetro - delta wont tolerate an increase in cost either. look around - pinnacle and continental have accepted delta flying for close to or a loss. why do you think there are so many other connection carriers in atl? delta learned from comair and wont let that happen again.

if we demand the highest rates in the industry - we are finished.

what makes you think the mediator hasnt told the union to get this finifshed or else.

Pilot costs won't even matter cause our managment can't fix the performance side of things. Delta will drop us cause of that long before pilot costs come into play. Delta is looking for the best service for the least amount of money and right now we have the worst performance with the least amount of money. How long do ya think that's gonna last?

 

[John Pennekamp]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The pilots were given a chance and did not fully rise to the occasion in showing the company we mean business. The MEC needs to take this into account, show some leadership, and close this deal so that we can realize the quality of life improvements this contract offers and get a minor pay raise.

The MEC needs to drop its table position for a large -200 raise with retro, and take the company's pay proposal, in exchange for binding scope. Then wrap this thing up and send it out for ratification. If it passes it passes. If it fails, then go for broke. But SOMEONE needs to break this stalemate.

The NMB gave them an embarassing defeat by saying no proffer again. The ball is now in the union's court. They can let the company continue to drag this out, or they can take the blinders off and realize they have been defeated by politics and power.

I know they're reading this. What's on the table is not concessionary, it's just less than expectations. Get some scope, and wrap it up!

 

[Tarzan]

Delta is looking for the best service for the least amount of money and right now we have the worst performance with the least amount of money. How long do ya think that's gonna last?

I keep hearing guys beating the same drum in regards to this. Have you looked at Freedom's numbers? Our numbers glow by comparison.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The pilots were given a chance and did not fully rise to the occasion in showing the company we mean business. The MEC needs to take this into account, show some leadership, and close this deal so that we can realize the quality of life improvements this contract offers and get a minor pay raise.

The MEC needs to drop its table position for a large -200 raise with retro, and take the company's pay proposal, in exchange for binding scope. Then wrap this thing up and send it out for ratification. If it passes it passes. If it fails, then go for broke. But SOMEONE needs to break this stalemate.

The NMB gave them an embarassing defeat by saying no proffer again. The ball is now in the union's court. They can let the company continue to drag this out, or they can take the blinders off and realize they have been defeated by politics and power.

I know they're reading this. What's on the table is not concessionary, it's just less than expectations. Get some scope, and wrap it up!

Agreed. I hope you talk about this issue in the crew room in this comtext. Give us something to vote on.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Pilot costs won't even matter cause our managment can't fix the performance side of things. Delta will drop us cause of that long before pilot costs come into play. Delta is looking for the best service for the least amount of money and right now we have the worst performance with the least amount of money. How long do ya think that's gonna last?

Feb. DOT statistics for cancellations - percentage of flights cancelled:

CMR: 10.61%
MESA: 7.43%
Pinnacle: 6.36%
ASA: 5.35%
Skywest: 4.89%

Now what were you saying?

 

[av8tor4239]

I find it funny that we just got a memo from BL that says:

"Performance trending in a positive direction like we’re seeing will not only increase ASA’s competitiveness within the regional airline industry, but it will also put more dollars in ASA people’s pockets through our Performance Plus rewards program. And I know that many of you are anticipating yet another payout within a couple of weeks.

Since the launch of Performance Plus last year, ASA has been profitable enough to share earnings with our non-contract people a total of four times – once following each quarter of 2006. As we approach the date that SkyWest, Inc. will publish its earnings for 1Q07, ​

​

I’m pleased to announce that we have modified the program to provide even larger rewards going forward."

I just dont get it.. non contract employees dont have to be cost competetive, but the contract employees have to be cost competetive and take concessions​

 

[crjskipper]

av8 - it's not that hard to understand. non-contract employees arent demanding higher wages and new work rules - we are. non-contract employees dont automatically get yearly pay increases - we do.

oh - and dont forget - the company has offered profit share (in return for pbs) to us.

there are a lot of improvements in the new contract that i want now. i dont want to wait another 6 months in the vain attempt to become the highest paid in the industry.

i also dont want to be a sacrificial lamb for alpa national.

and now we cant complain about asa management and the ramp since delta is even more responsible for our performance.

you cant have it both ways...

 

[79%N1]

crjskipper....I'm with you. We've made gains in this contract, especially in QOL. We've got a much improved scheduling and reserve section (which at the time negotiations started most ASA pilots claimed was the most important section to them) duty rigs, minimum day, commuter clause, and a bonus program offered. I would like to see these gains, along with some binding scope or job protection ----- AND GET IT DONE! People on both sides of this need to know, ALPA National is now driving this ship, and steering our officials into leading us to slaughter! Call your rep and let them know how you feel, or they are going to continue this push for our industry leading trophy contract in their desire to enlist Skywest and Colgan pilots!

 

[Stifler's Mom]

crjskipper....I'm with you. We've made gains in this contract, especially in QOL. We've got a much improved scheduling and reserve section (which at the time negotiations started most ASA pilots claimed was the most important section to them) duty rigs, minimum day, commuter clause, and a bonus program offered. I would like to see these gains, along with some binding scope or job protection ----- AND GET IT DONE! People on both sides of this need to know, ALPA National is now driving this ship, and steering our officials into leading us to slaughter! Call your rep and let them know how you feel, or they are going to continue this push for our industry leading trophy contract in their desire to enlist Skywest and Colgan pilots!

Isn't SCOPE the major hang up for management? They simply don't want any language like that in the contract.

 

[79%N1]

That may be true, and I am willing to walk out over that. Not that it would matter, because if they are so unwilling to give it, the writing is on the wall! I am not willing to walk over ALPA's proposed payrates. Perhaps we could get the job protection we need, and get to the QOL improvements we have already gained, if we came down to more reasonable rates. Remember, there is money to be made in rigs and bonuses!

 

[601Pilot]

Nothing will happen until the ASA pilots start to help themselves. Delta will not tolerate a slow-down. It would be in their best interest to get our contract signed. If Skywest Inc. could find enough pilots to replace us they would, but they can't. We have to slow it down. Write it up, taxi slow, and stop using cell phones. We will have a contract within a week! This opportuniy will not last long.

Exactly! Unfortunately, too many people are single-engine taxiing, calling multiple times for services, etc. If I were management, I would drag these negotiating out forever. They have no incentive to sign anything and we are definitely not giving them an incentive. We just go about doing the same job everyday for the `02 rates and they keep getting their bonuses. It's a win-win for them. Not too many of our pilots actually care; Joey doesn't care, Alan doesn't care, etc. They just stomp their feet and raise he-ll on this board and then do their job like nothing is wrong. David Behncke must roll over in his grave nightly knowing these pansies are members of his once proud union.

 

[sweptback]

I know they're reading this. What's on the table is not concessionary, it's just less than expectations. Get some scope, and wrap it up!

As a former insider you realize that we're not just going to "get" scope. You can't buy something that is not for sale.

You are doing everybody a disservice by suggesting that if we lowered our pay demands a bit, accepting pay so low that we would be at the bottom of the industry, the company would give us scope in exchange. I know you want to advance your agenda, but to suggest that the company will just give it to us for 3% of our pay (just pulling a number out of my hair) is absolutely wrong.

I have news for you: the company will not give us scope unless we pry it out of their hands. You can look at the fact that they're not even engaging us in the discussion, they're just outright rejecting it. If SkyWest gives us scope, then the whipsaw is dead. They're not going to give up something that powerful for a few bucks. We're only going to get it in the form of a last-minute deal at 11:59 on the 30th day.

 

[John Pennekamp]

As a former insider you realize that we're not just going to "get" scope. You can't buy something that is not for sale.

You are doing everybody a disservice by suggesting that if we lowered our pay demands a bit, accepting pay so low that we would be at the bottom of the industry, the company would give us scope in exchange. I know you want to advance your agenda, but to suggest that the company will just give it to us for 3% of our pay (just pulling a number out of my hair) is absolutely wrong.

CM?
Agenda? And which agenda whould that be? My only agenda is looking out for the ASA pilots, as I always have. I simply used to voice my feelings in private.

No, instead of parroting rhetoric, how about explaining how my proposal is "accepting pay so low that we would be at the bottom of the industry"? Are you even aware of what our table position is on the -700? Educute yourself before you make an ass of yourself publicly next time. We are asking for almost a 20% raise over 3 years on the -200! I surely hope you're not the CNC member I think you are!

I suggest we sell the "industry leading" -200 rate (plus retro) we have on the table for scope. That's all.

I have news for you: the company will not give us scope unless we pry it out of their hands. You can look at the fact that they're not even engaging us in the discussion, they're just outright rejecting it. If SkyWest gives us scope, then the whipsaw is dead. They're not going to give up something that powerful for a few bucks. We're only going to get it in the form of a last-minute deal at 11:59 on the 30th day.

Well if you can somehow get us a release, then that may be true. But all of Alpa's tricks seem to have been exhausted. It's nut cutting time, and we the pilot group need top take matters into our own hands if the MEC won't move this process along. This stalemate must end and it will only end when we stop the senseless fight.

I agree that Jerry won't "give" us scope. But we can buy it for the 10-20 million we were asking for in a -200 raise plus retro. As for the whipsaw, it hasn't done any good, and Jerry knows that. We've been whipsawed for 5 years and have neither taken concessions nor bought airplanes (unlike our neighbors to the north).

 

[regionalcap]

CM?
Agenda? And which agenda whould that be? My only agenda is looking out for the ASA pilots, as I always have. I simply used to voice my feelings in private.

No, instead of parroting rhetoric, how about explaining how my proposal is "accepting pay so low that we would be at the bottom of the industry"? Are you even aware of what our table position is on the -700? Educute yourself before you make an ass of yourself publicly next time. We are asking for almost a 20% raise over 3 years on the -200! I surely hope you're not the CNC member I think you are!

I suggest we sell the "industry leading" -200 rate (plus retro) we have on the table for scope. That's all.



Well if you can somehow get us a release, then that may be true. But all of Alpa's tricks seem to have been exhausted. It's nut cutting time, and we the pilot group need top take matters into our own hands if the MEC won't move this process along. This stalemate must end and it will only end when we stop the senseless fight.

I agree that Jerry won't "give" us scope. But we can buy it for the 10-20 million we were asking for in a -200 raise plus retro. As for the whipsaw, it hasn't done any good, and Jerry knows that. We've been whipsawed for 5 years and have neither taken concessions nor bought airplanes (unlike our neighbors to the north).

What is normal for pilots to get for retro? A buddy of mine was a first officer at express jet. He got about 10,000 and that was as an f/o. Do you think pilots are going to be willing to give up 10 to 20 grand in retro after almost 5 years of negotiating? I think it will be tough to get 100%, but I have a feeling guys wouldn't give it up completely. It doesn't look like we are that far apart on the 700. They could nail that one down pretty quick. The 200 rates could come down a little too. However, as far as money goes, you make good credits if you have decent rigs. Ask any of the AirTtran guys and they will tell you that. It is a shame that only two dates are scheduled. They should sit down for a week and hammer it out. Lock them in the room .

 

[JoeMerchant]

We just go about doing the same job everyday for the `02 rates and they keep getting their bonuses. It's a win-win for them. Not too many of our pilots actually care; Joey doesn't care, Alan doesn't care, etc. They just stomp their feet and raise he-ll on this board and then do their job like nothing is wrong. David Behncke must roll over in his grave nightly knowing these pansies are members of his once proud union.

Behncke's been rolling over since ALPA allowed it's members to compete for flying within a brand. What kind of union would allow it's members to bid against one another for flying within a brand? Something is wrong, and to fix it will admit that ALPA has been a complete failure when it comes to scope.

Even our old 70 seat rates are the highest in the DCI system.... just wait for the Mesa and Pinnacle 900 rates.... take another swig of that Herndon koolaid and tell me again why this is all my fault...

 

[ASARJMan]

I suggest we sell the "industry leading" -200 rate (plus retro) we have on the table for scope. That's all.

Skywest has the "industry-leading" 200 pay rates right now. Although I could live with the company's currently proposed 200 rates, I think a little more would do it. Retro for all the company stalling, and loss of COL still wanted by me. Scope too. We're one of the top regionals out there, and we need compensated acoordingly. I not saying at the very top, but close to the top for sure. But that's me, and how I feel about it.

 

[ASARJMan]

.... take another swig of that Herndon koolaid and tell me again why this is all my fault...

Joey no one really cares whether it's your fault or not, or if you even exist. You're irrelevant, boring, and self-centered. Enjoy all your houses/boat, while you can.

 

[601Pilot]

Behncke's been rolling over since ALPA allowed it's members to compete for flying within a brand. What kind of union would allow it's members to bid against one another for flying within a brand? Something is wrong, and to fix it will admit that ALPA has been a complete failure when it comes to scope.

Even our old 70 seat rates are the highest in the DCI system.... just wait for the Mesa and Pinnacle 900 rates.... take another swig of that Herndon koolaid and tell me again why this is all my fault...

We all know ALPA has a problem with how it handles Scope; you don't have to tell us the same story everyday!

And it is your fault is all you do is biatch on this board and then fly your ATR on-time just like the company wants you to do.