More 170's for UALX

[jobear]

DALPA has a scope limit that only permits a maximum of 57 70 seat a/c between all the DCI carriers.

Does that 57 include the A/C that Skywest flies also?

How can DAL fire ACA and keep a codeshare with Skywest when they fly 70 seaters for UAL isn't it all on the same certificate/operation.

Does Republic operate on a seperate certificate? Then how can the Pilots be on the same senority list?

Just wondering not trolling.
Jobear

 

[General Lee]

Skywest and Chataqua can fly as many 70 seaters as they want---but the only ones currently flying for Delta are the 57 proposed--and those will be flown by ASA/Comair. Sure, there may be some back room deal made by Dalpa and managment that would allow Chataqua to fly some for Delta---but I bet there would be a J4J deal attached--and the furloughs would return as captains on them. Just a guess..... I don't think Delta would mind that at all...


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FlyComAirJets]

Are you serious?

Let's see if I have this straight; there could be "some back room deal made by Dalpa and managment that would allow Chataqua to fly some for Delta---but I bet there would be a J4J deal attached--and the furloughs would return as captains on them." There is an additional entity who needs to be a signature party here, the Air Line Pilots Association so they must be acutely aware of such a deal.

The Chautauqua pilots, on the other hand, are represented by the Teamsters.

The mythical 58th RJ would not be at ASA or Comair CRJ700 at industry-leading pay rates but rather an E-170 operated by Chautauqua dba Republic Airways largely crewed by Delta pilots with some form of super seniority at industry-trailing payrates.

Wow, talk about the mother of all DFR cases.

 

[surplus1]

Does that 57 include the A/C that Skywest flies also?

It would inlclude any 70 seat jet flown by SKYW under the Delta code. It would not include any flown for United or others.

How can DAL fire ACA and keep a codeshare with Skywest when they fly 70 seaters for UAL isn't it all on the same certificate/operation.

The ACA situation is different from Skywest. ACA (Independence) is operating or will operate jets "configured" with more than 70-seats. That violates Delta's scope clause. The "Certificate" on which the aircraft is placed has nothing to do with it.

Does Republic operate on a seperate certificate? Then how can the Pilots be on the same senority list?

For this purpose, which certificate they operate under does not matter. CHQ or REP can operate as many 70-seat jets as they chose as long as they are not operated for Delta.

The following is the applicable language from Section 1.D.2. of the Delta PWA:

1 D.2. If a domestic air carrier operates both permitted aircraft types and aircraft other than permitted aircraft types, the exemption for that domestic air carrier provided by Section 1 D. 1. will not apply unless:

a. the flying on aircraft other than permitted aircraft types is not performed for the Company within the meaning of Section 1 C., and
​

b. there is no reduction in the level of the Company​

’s then existing system scheduled aircraft block hours of flying as the result of the performance of such flying on other than a permitted aircraft type, and
​

c. the aircraft other than a permitted aircraft type, is either a jet aircraft configured with 70 or fewer passenger seats or a propeller driven aircraft configured with 72 or fewer passenger seats, and is operated on its own behalf or pursuant to agreement with an air carrier(s) other than the Company or an affiliate.​

​

​

Notice that the conjunction "and" is used to link a., b., and c., which means that all three conditions must be met.​

​

Therefore as long as Chautauqua configures the EMB-170 with no more than 70 passenger seats, it may operate as many as it wants to for itself, for United, for USAirways or anyone else, without violating the Delta PWA.​

​

The Delta PWA defines Comair and ASA as Affiliates (in addition to their being "domestic air carriers"), which is not the same as the relationship with Chautauqua or SKYW. Therefore, Section 1.D.3. contains almost, but not quite, the same provison as above with respect to CMR and ASA. It reads as follows:​

​

1 D.3. Section 1 C. will not apply to flying performed by any affiliate on permitted aircraft types.

​

The definition of "permitted aircraft type" in the Delta PWA makes no reference to "configuration" but only references "certification". Because of this difference the restrictions applied to Comair and ASA are actually more restrictive than those applied to Chautauqua or SKYW. The EMB-170 is "certificated" for 76 seats. Therefore, Comair or ASA would NOT be able to operate this type for themselves or for anyone else in that Section 1 D.3. (above) does not include the term "configuration", which appears in Section 1 D.2.c. While the difference is very subtle it is nevertheless intentional. If it were not, there would be no need for the separate Section 1 D.3.​

​

I hope that clears it up.​

 

[Weasel Keeper]

Wondering...just out of curiosity if Shuttle America's cert would work for 70 seaters....(Wexford parents...) if we got rid of the Saabs...


Heck, I dunno, rumors rule around here.

Just a happy S/A Shroom......

 

[TWAER]

Also, guess who owns a bunch of RJET stock? It would be in Delta's best interest to help CHQ keep the United deal. If CHQ were to lose it, RJET stock would drop and Delta would lose even more money.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Surplus :

Thanks for your replies and research.

I thought the E170 was over the weight limits for a permitted aircraft type.

~~~^~~~

 

[Broke in CVG]

Delta doesn't own any RJET stock... they just have warrants (rights to purchase).

 

[rvsm410]

From a dispatchers pay side of the story.

The CHQ dispatchers will bid to work only under the Republic certificate to dispatch only the 170's, the pay however will be the same as if working for the CHQ side of the room....Wonder what the pilot pay will be? the same as any other aircraft at CHQ???? $12.19 an hour to start...... for dispatch, moves up in one year to almost $13.00 and hour!

Where is the bottom going to stop???? They have a contract good till 2007 if I recall the web site correctly....todays press release is new to me however, so I really don't know how this will affect the scope with DAL noted above...interesting to say the least...

 

[TWAER]

Delta doesn't own any RJET stock... they just have warrants (rights to purchase).

UMMMMMMMM check again, they OWN yes I said OWN a bunch........I believe about 18% or so.......