Moral sinking at FLOPS

[imacdog]

B, once the Options pilots get their contract and you get let go, do you think you'll be able to find another union busting job?

 

[fischman]

You need to look at "big picture" fischman.. you are talking about "flying jobs". I'm talking about company stability.

Which companies have the best chance of survival during tough times, those that can adjust to the market or those that are hamstrung by "industry leading" contracts?

When a union is involved and cuts happen, they are deeper and a lot wider than those of non-unionized companies or work groups. Non union companies can offer packages and pull down employee payroll through volunteer methods rather than by seniority. Vendors like insurance companies and health benefits can be changed and modified to save money and give the same coverage without the intervention unions always make.

Yeah, things are so much better with unions.

Big picture stuff... pilots like you have a hard time doing that.

I am not referring to flying jobs. I am referring to companies in aviation (which include flight operations). I am referring to big picture.

Here's another big picture... You are wrong. You are ignorant in the subjects in which you write. You don't know the industry as well as you think you do.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Vision must be bad....

Really? Like JetBlue? XOJet? Are their jobs stable? No unions there...


The only stable job in aviation is being Santa Claus and flying in a magical sleigh. OH wait... I guess there are no stable jobs in aviation. To say otherwise is fooling yourself.


NetJets is one of the mose stable places in America to have a flying job RIGHT NOW. We have unions. What does that tell you? THAT YOUR LOGIC IS FLAWED. Mr. Spock is laughing at you!

You weren't talking about flying jobs? I guess I need to go back and get the lasik redone.

Perhaps it's because I didn't use spell check on it??

 

[chingaso]

Ah..B-19

my old adversary. How you been? I've been away for a while but it looks like you're still "spreadin' the love!"

I've read that you claim that you are in a management position at a 121 internional carrier. The fact that you are management is why you enjoy the excellent salary and benefits. How much do the pilots at this alleged workplace make?

You still seem to be reluctant to provide your readers with any credibal credibility. These forums are replete with low-timers and non-pilots posing as aviators and throwing their opinions around. My friend, no one is going to take you seriously unless you cowboy up and prove that you are indeed who you say you are; until that happens, everyone is going to see you as simply flame-bait.

To repeat myself for the um-teenth time: Most, if not all, the pilots at Flight Options were against having a union on the property--initially. We were a pretty conservative bunch, loyal and dedicated to the task at hand of growing our modest little carrier into a viable and dynamic player in the frac industry.

Mike Sheeringa changed all that. Sheeringa and his ward, Sanjay Whatever, did more damage to that company in 2 years and reversed the growth and capabilities that had been achieved in the previous 5. Little man with a lot of power. They sold airplanes and called it 'profit.' They drove away customers by the hundreds and called it 'growth.' They viewed their employees as a source of income. They used other-peoples-airplanes for personal use. Quarter after quarter, they reduced benefits and salaries and viscerated quality of life with a vengence. They literally tripled the amount of VPs and 2nd-floor executives over a 9-month period, all sporting 6-figure salaries, while crying poor to the pilot group when asked simply for a safe hotel to sleep in. You've argued that a non-union company can grow, while this non-union company was dieing a sickening death at the hands of an incompetent that knew nothing about general aviation.

Something had to be done. The pilots, even the anti-union pilots, chose to get some help.

You said a long time ago, after I went into great detail about the danger men like Sheeringa pose to our industry, that "management can be changed overnight." I asked you then: how does a pilot group affect such an 'overnight' change without the aid of organization? You never responded.

A union happened at Flight Options because there was no other way to stop a whack-job from doing what he was doing. He has since been sh**canned by the Board, during a rare moment of clarity. Sure, contracts can hamstring a company when an economic tidal-wave hits, but in the case of Flight Options, at the rate Sheeringa was going, there wasnt going to be much of a company to save had something not been done. Sheeringa is solely responsible for a union coming to Flight Options.

Pilots with 3000 hours of international PIC time are a rare group of individuals. Your alleged company must treat your pilots quite well. What would happen at your company if they began to hurt pilots and their families like Sheeringa did at Options? If your pilots were to 'quit and go somewhere else if they don't like it' wouldn't you guys be hard pressed to replace them with such high minimums? Options lost owners and pilots at a grossly astounding rate, so much so they had to reduce their minumums in order to get guys off the street. Once in the door, many of these same pilots quit before the end of indoc. Options had become the laughing stock of the industry in 2 short years. How would you have saved Flight Options?

Unions might not be the cure-all, but a union at Flight Options was an unfortunate necessity. How long has it been since you were a working pilot? Things have changed over the last 6 years, it's not the job it was when you were flying.

One last question that I doubt you will answer: why do you not post in the airline forums? Why bother yourself with this fractional forum? I know you are supposed to have had a bad experience with a unionized carrier, thus your hatred for unions. Shouldn't you be spending your time more wisely trying to get your message across in the airline forums? It wasn't a fractional company that burned you, nor was it a fractional's union that burned you. Why not take the fight to your true adversaries instead of hanging out in this bar? Your words need to be heard by the folks flying for SWA, AA, NWA, CA, and all your other 121 brothers. You're wasting your breath over here, brother.

 

[VA Buckeye]

I am a former FLOPS and RTA pilot, Chingaso you are dead on correct. The pilots and support folks are who kept FLOPS going while management incompetence was having it's affect.

 

[fischman]

Your job is not stable. You are in aviation. No one's job is stable in this industry.

You weren't talking about flying jobs? I guess I need to go back and get the lasik redone.

Perhaps it's because I didn't use spell check on it??

Yes. Go have your eyes checked.


An E.E.G. probably wouldn't hurt either...

 

[AeroBoy]

Fischman,

Just how do you do an E.E.G. on someone who obviously doesn't have a heart?

 

[fischman]

Fischman,

Just how do you do an E.E.G. on someone who obviously doesn't have a heart?

That would be an E.K.G. En E.E.G is a brainwave scan. However, I think your logic still applies!

 

[Semore Butts]

Is it just me?

Or is Bob 19 driving the posters on Flightinfo to form and Anti-Bob 19 Union?

I thought his whole thing was convincing us not be union employees?

He doesn't seem to be very good at his job?

He doesn't need an EEG or EKG, he needs shock treatment or another Lobotomy since the first on didn't take.

I think Bob 19's EEG would look like Hydracarts avitar!

 

[FR8DOG777]

The problem is greedy managers that want their bottom line to look good while they go buy a new boat. THe only reason they can ask for give backs is because they are management. The pilots at NJ are similar to the battle hardend US Marine.....you can't beat a US Marine. There will NO givebacks, the company agreed to that contract, so regardless of the economic situation they will have to live by it. And that means all the cushy, lazy, useless management will have to do some work for a change.

The problem in aviation is useless management that thier sole purpose in life is to bleed the company dry. They only wanna do the minimal amount of work possible to show a decent bottom line.

If managent didn't try to butt fck us every chance, there would be no need for a labor union. I dont feel sorry for them one bit. They deserved it.

FLOPS pilots, just for the sole reason of being a buncha a$$ holes, should ask for another 25k per year because management isnt bargaining in good faith. Then go over to their house and drink all their beer.

Hear, hear, I'll raise a toast to that. I hereby nominate you as chief negotiator for the next round of negotiations. Did we say industry standard contract,,,,,we meant industry leading contract. Case in point; US Airways pilot payscale in the eighty's, always in the top three producers yet notoriously unprofitable as a company. We get a fair contract or we burn this place to the ground. It's funny how they have money for new paint, new interiors, personalized company logo's on napkins, neon mx signs, sony readers, vp of blue juice, assistant vp of blue juice,CFO trips to Cabo, b19, and last but not least F&H.