Moral sinking at FLOPS

[fischman]

That is where your mistake is. My views are shared by most of the pilots on these boards. You SHOULD take me (us) seriously. Especially since you are in management! Getting a pulse on your employees just MIGHT lead to higher productivity and more profits. The carrot will get you farther than the whip.


But what do I know... I'm just a stupid pilot.

 

[B19 Flyer]

That is where your mistake is. My views are shared by most of the pilots on these boards. You SHOULD take me (us) seriously. Especially since you are in management! Getting a pulse on your employees just MIGHT lead to higher productivity and more profits. The carrot will get you farther than the whip.


But what do I know... I'm just a stupid pilot.

And this is where it's interesting fischman, because my views are exactly that of management, the views of which are rarely seen in print.

The problem is, (and you should take ME just as seriously) that its management who signs the checks because they and they alone are only responsible for the existance of the company which includes the welfare of all the pilots, non pilot employees and owners.

It's the pilots that need to understand that managment is out for the good of the entire company, while the union is only out for the welfare of their own group.

When you open your your eyes and understand "It's not only about the pilots", you begin to understand why negotiations and union interventions are so brutal.

But what do I know.. I only sign the checks.

 

[993_Pilot]

...It's the pilots that need to understand that managment is out for the good of the entire company, while the union is only out for the welfare of their own group...

Yeah, all of management has altruistic motives, tell me another one Pinocchio. We have seen so much evidence of corporate greed in the recent past, that it is ridiculous. Witness Worldcom, Enron, the S&L scandals of the 80's, AIG, The recent mortgage industry collapse. I could go on and on. How many of those managers faired like their employees when they ruined their companies? . . . besides the ones that went to jail, I mean? Most managers are only looking out for the companies to the extent that it will benefit themselves.

 

[skanza]

Yeah, all of management has altruistic motives, tell me another one Pinocchio. We have seen so much evidence of corporate greed in the recent past, that it is ridiculous. Witness Worldcom, Enron, the S&L scandals of the 80's, AIG, The recent mortgage industry collapse. I could go on and on. How many of those managers faired like their employees when they ruined their companies? . . . besides the ones that went to jail, I mean? Most managers are only looking out for the companies to the extent that it will benefit themselves.

Sooo... A union would have helped prevent the problem of those you've listed?
Witness GM, Ford, Chrysler, seems the union was nothing but trouble when it came to sustaining the company (along with buliding garbage products, but thats beside the point..).
It just seems that you bringing up these companies (Worldcom, Enron, etc.) means that a union would have prevented these "evil" managers from doing "evil".
Doubt-it.

 

[skanza]

Fischman, I've stated many times over... this is for entertainment only. It's hard to look at Larry, Moe and Curly and take you seriously too. :laugh:

Or Beavis (Dimeline).

 

[993_Pilot]

Sooo... A union would have helped prevent the problem of those you've listed?
Witness GM, Ford, Chrysler, seems the union was nothing but trouble when it came to sustaining the company (along with buliding garbage products, but thats beside the point..).
It just seems that you bringing up these companies (Worldcom, Enron, etc.) means that a union would have prevented these "evil" managers from doing "evil".
Doubt-it.

I never said that a union would have prevented this... Honestly, where to you get these things? I am simply saying that most management is no less selfish than most unions. Further, I am not willing to put my fate in managements hand unless they would be willing to tie their fate to mine. Since that isn't going to happen, and we don't have golden parachutes, we're looking out for ourselves, and have put our trust in the union. Regardless of what you believe, the pilots are not out to ruin the company, they simply want to be treated with respect, and paid like the professionals that we are... of course B19's answer is for us to quit and change companies. I guess he is saying that he doesn't think Flops will never be a company worth working for long term! ... Nice message to be sending the employees.

 

[brokeflyer]

tihs thread has become pointless.....we want our union and our safety.......b19 and skanza are the exact opposite...fine....time for this thread to die.

we can keep this debate going forever....lets find something else to talk about.

 

[993_Pilot]

tihs thread has become pointless.....we want our union and our safety.......b19 and skanza are the exact opposite...fine....time for this thread to die.

we can keep this debate going forever....lets find something else to talk about.

Sounds good to me. Come up with a new topic and start a new thread. Of course, you know that regardless of the topic, B19 and Skanza will try to turn it in to "why unions are evil", but at least we won't have to wade through 200 posts.

 

[fischman]

And this is where it's interesting fischman, because my views are exactly that of management, the views of which are rarely seen in print.

The problem is, (and you should take ME just as seriously) that its management who signs the checks because they and they alone are only responsible for the existance of the company which includes the welfare of all the pilots, non pilot employees and owners. ...and shareholders... ($$$). (Did I mention something about a carrot instead of a whip?)

It's the pilots that need to understand that managment is out for the good of the entire company, while the union is only out for the welfare of their own group. Which if treated with respect and dignity would have more of a sense of pride in their company. They would go that extra mile as we have seen at NJA to see it succeed. Instead, as you have witnessed at FLOPS, they get the job done.

When you open your your eyes and understand "It's not only about the pilots", you begin to understand why negotiations and union interventions are so brutal.

But what do I know.. I only sign the checks.

It only takes a pen to write checks. It takes passion to make a comapny thrive. With the current management style at FLOPS I am concerned for them.

Look in the mirror. This is what you'll see...

http://images1.comstock.com/Imagewarehouse/TS/SITECS/NLWMCompingVersions/B0010/B0010721/B0010721.jpg

 

[brokeflyer]

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