Moral sinking at FLOPS

[EX_CV580FR8Dawg]

From an insider's perspective, one that you don't have, I'll clarify my statement for you.

Once the union is voted in, the company wants negotiations done and over with, because they have better things to do than screwing around with a bunch of pilots that want to slow the company down and create turmoil for the entire group.

Not once have I EVER seen the company stonewall negotiations. Never. The union doesn't ever move toward the middle on work rules and payroll until either the mediator, bankruptcy or a strike is looming no matter what the company offers.

They WANT the strike, the company just simply wants to get it over with.

There is no middle ground with unions, the word "negotiate" is not even in their dictionary. It is replaced by "Blackmail".

Turd......

 

[B19 Flyer]

Turd......

You know you're successful in management when you get hate mail written on the bathroom wall...

:laugh:

 

[993_Pilot]

... Once the union is voted in, the company wants negotiations done and over with, because they have better things to do than screwing around with a bunch of pilots that want to slow the company down and create turmoil for the entire group...

Why would this be true? What would even be the point? We want to be treated fairly, we want to be compensated fairly, and we want a little job protection. In short, we want a contract, not to kill a company. If the union were to kill the company, they would lose all the dues paying members, so where is the incentive? While some pilots may "slow the company down" as you say, they probably do it in an effort to give management an incentive to actually negotiate, no other reason. Even then, they wouldn't have to create anything to do so, these aircraft break often enough. All they would have to do is write them up when and where they happen, instead of carrying intermittent squawks while they are "evaluated" or while the "cause" is identified ... you know, that gray area that can make or break companies that are run on thin margins.

 

[Publishers]

We were having this debate yesterday although it was more related to some airline situations than to fractionals.
Most people do not recognize what are the real negatives of unions in airlines. Next to governmental regulations changes, technology changes, the inability to change and adapt to the market when you have significant changes is the third killer of airlines.
Examples, deregulation of airlines changed the playing field, aircraft to trains changed transportation. Inability of airlines to adjust to 9/11.
What is killing the auto business today, the same things. On the union side, pensions and benefits negotiated in better times that kill them today and the inability to change things instantly in response to market changes.
I have never seen a great contract come in these kind of economic times nor very many in companies that cannot find their foothold in the market.

 

[dime line]

You know you're successful in management when you get hate mail written on the bathroom wall...

:laugh:

WHAT A MORON, YOUR PROUD OF THIS?

 

[FR8DOG777]

management

Hate mail is indicative of piss-poor managent by an oppressed and spitefull employee group. I am reminded of seeing such writing on the back seat of the employee bus, "Vanguard airlines sucks". Well, vanguard ain't around anymore, I am sure they had very effective managers though as described by the hate mail writing on the wall. B19 couldn't manage a wet dream. An effective manager would be developing and trategizing how to compete in todays market place instead of using pilot wages to subsidize operations and wasting their time here. Why don't you P.M. me your address b19 so I can send you a special 900 gram hollowpoint for your russian roulette game you'll be playing with yourself this holliday season.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Hate mail is indicative of piss-poor managent by an oppressed and spitefull employee group. I am reminded of seeing such writing on the back seat of the employee bus, "Vanguard airlines sucks". Well, vanguard ain't around anymore, I am sure they had very effective managers though as described by the hate mail writing on the wall. B19 couldn't manage a wet dream. An effective manager would be developing and trategizing how to compete in todays market place instead of using pilot wages to subsidize operations and wasting their time here. Why don't you P.M. me your address b19 so I can send you a special 900 gram hollowpoint for your russian roulette game you'll be playing with yourself this holliday season.

Funny you should write that, because in non-union fracs that's exactly what they have time to do.

They aren't playing those silly union games with the unions, those managers are doing what they do best, creating a plan for survival through tough economic times.

Your management however is wasting time by trying to figure out how to create revenue with a bunch of pilots that only want to play union games and jeapordize the remaining financial health of the company.

 

[B19 Flyer]

WHAT A MORON, YOUR PROUD OF THIS?

I am if you are the one writing on the wall !! :laugh:

 

[B19 Flyer]

We were having this debate yesterday although it was more related to some airline situations than to fractionals.
Most people do not recognize what are the real negatives of unions in airlines. Next to governmental regulations changes, technology changes, the inability to change and adapt to the market when you have significant changes is the third killer of airlines.
Examples, deregulation of airlines changed the playing field, aircraft to trains changed transportation. Inability of airlines to adjust to 9/11.
What is killing the auto business today, the same things. On the union side, pensions and benefits negotiated in better times that kill them today and the inability to change things instantly in response to market changes.
I have never seen a great contract come in these kind of economic times nor very many in companies that cannot find their foothold in the market.

Agreed. This is a huge factor of my dislike of unions, the inability to act quickly under pressure forcing the company (no matter which company or type of business it is) to the edge of complete failure.

 

[brokeflyer]

it will all be over soon.....the economy will collapse and both pilots and management will be out of a job. Management will have their golden chutes but no where else to go after that.

So all the bickering is pointless, unless your a doctor or a lawyer your doomed.

Have a nice day.