Moisture to leave?

[netjetwife]

Your profile fits us, I will agree. From contacting the families in our area to arrange get togethers--my efforts--to his working on SU projects--something like the additional duties AF officers routinely did, we are happier with the new unity currently forming at NJA. Interesting dilemma, isn't it? Caught in a web of our own making, no less. I still feel the same about all the issues--that hasn't changed. If anything, I feel the emotions --anger, frustration, outrage, disappointment--even stronger now because it is no longer just about my husband and my family, but many others at NJ that we have come to know while fighting the fight. Incidentially, I'm hosting a playdate tomorrow for another NJ wife and her children--our daughters are the same age.

Regardless of the final outcome, taking a stand and helping build unity is the right thing to do, and one we don't regret. If your intuition should next tell you that we are feeling torn, I'll plead guilty to that as well.

Say hello to your wife for me....
NJW

 

[FAcFriend]

ACE
I agree so much with what you have said here. Often in the business world i find people gripe alot about their jobs and want more pay. When they finally go looking (often because they are let go because their disgruntled nature brings everyone down) they have a hard time replacing what they had-

It is a trade off at NJA. There are alot of things the pilots really like. They want everything they love about their jobs, ability to live wherever, security that come with a union, AND to be paid like other pilots who work more hours, do not have the security, and move alot.

Noone can blame them for trying.

Any basic econ book will explain the economic impact unions have on companies. These guys do not see the benefits as cost items for the company. Good for union for doing a great job with information- Sometimes it seems like the SU guys are making promises too - hey, that is an election

 

[Starman]

Hey Fiend,

Nobody is buying your management hoohah here. Run along back to your office on Bridgeway and try and earn your paycheck instead of posting on a message board.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Does FAcFriend work for you guys?

 

[Fozzy]

"AND to be paid like other pilots who work more hours, do not have the security, and move alot."

Hey FracFool. You have no idea what you are talking about. Name one corporate flight department that flys more hours that the frac's.

I am flying as much here as I was at the commuters.

Get back to work screwing up the catering order!

 

[FAcFriend]

Thanks guys, I appreciate your compliments that I have learned enough about the industry to hit nerves and also be considered a management type or in the case of Fozzy, a catering person.

Funny how any opinion outside your vision, is blasted here. (same for union boards in other industries as well) Seems you are more interested in hearing your story than understanding the business. I may be wrong. You may get our business dialogue from your some other board.

Thanks for the research.
PS Fozzy, were you paid overtime at the commuters for flying the same hours?

 

[Fozzy]

Sorry you feel blasted (not really). But what do you expect when you do not know what you are talking about.

To answer your question. I was paid for the time that I bid. Though if (when)the trip took more time that what scheduling said it would, I did not see a penny. No Union and no contract.

As far as calling you a catering person, that eludes to the fact you sound like a management troll. Inside joke only someone that actually works at a fractional would find remotely amusing.

"Seems you are more interested in hearing your story than understanding the business. I may be wrong"

It is obvious that you do not know anything other than what you find on this board about the fractional business or aviation for that matter. That is why you are blasted.

 

[FAcFriend]

fozzy
I got the catering joke.

 

[Fozzy]

Good for you.

 

[netjetwife]

FAcFriend, I suggest you reread Ace's posts, that you say you agree with. He was trying to convince me that my husband could make MUCH MORE money flying LESS hours. You put a spin on our posts that does not exist. Who are these disgruntled workers ? NJ owners consistently rate the pilots higher than any other category in the company surveys. Fighting for a good/fair contract has nothing to do with how they interact with their px. The only pilot that has been fired was/is very popular BECAUSE of his outspoken supportive views. He raised morale, not lowered it. One of our latest pilots to throw in the towel (Ed Bragg) is much happier now--working far less for much more--he told us in his last email.


A trade off? Sure, I mention some differences that my husband considers, such as the variety and type of flying compared to the majors. He likes frac flying better, but won't continue to do it for chump change. Having pilots scattered around the country is as much a help to the company as it is to the pilot force, seeing as how they are picking up planes from many different locations. Union security doesn't cost the company anything and union pilots are still laid off during economic downturns--so why bring that up? There is nothing about flying for NJA that justifies the subpar wages and lack of respect with which the pilots and their families are treated. My husband has never worked harder for less money! Only the hope of finally getting fair wages has kept him and others in the fight.

Your anti-union posts that seem to suggest that legitimate complaints of low pay are the rants of a few "disgruntled" workers, instead of the widespread (82%) demand for fairness that is truly the case at NJA is making you appear to have a bias against the pilots there that doesn't make sense for an outsider to have. Perhaps your viewpoint is "blasted" because you are trying to force NJ pilots into a mold that doesn't fit their situation?

 

[Publishers]

One key statement from Netwife is that her husband does not want to do corporate flying-- is that not sort of what kind of flying NJA does?

"When we discussed corporate flying, he cited the lack of security as a big problem. Many companies have decided to shut down their flight depts and become NJ customers, instead. Additionally, there is the problem of the "

Obviously what you do not have in corporate flying is the security but also any kindship with a group like they seem to crave. "lack of respect" is that translated I want more money so if they do nt give it to me it means no respect.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

One key statement from Netwife is that her husband does not want to do corporate flying-- is that not sort of what kind of flying NJA does?

"When we discussed corporate flying, he cited the lack of security as a big problem. Many companies have decided to shut down their flight depts and become NJ customers, instead. Additionally, there is the problem of the "

Obviously what you do not have in corporate flying is the security but also any kindship with a group like they seem to crave. "lack of respect" is that translated I want more money so if they do nt give it to me it means no respect.

Publishers,

You usually have some pretty thoughtful posts. This one seems to ramble and have no point. I also have no specific point to my post other than yours was sub-par and you should leave my girlfriend alone

 

[netjetwife]

Thanks for the chivalry, Ace! Smiles to you...

Publishers, I'm glad that you understand the security issue quite well; it allows me to go straight to the lack of respect problem. As a number of NJ folks have pointed out previously, money, though a big problem, was not the only area of contention in the failed (by 82%!) TA. Lack of respect for pilots/families was clearly seen in other areas as well--from work rules to profit sharing, which was a joke, there was little to suggest that the company views its pilots as well regarded professionals that have made a substantial contribution to the success of NJA. They do, however, give the opposite impression in their dealings with the owners and in their advertising. To that I say: Put your money where your mouth is! And get rid of the idea that you can use the CVR to discipline the pilots. That is a respect issue that has NOTHING to do with money, Publishers.

Additionally, in the new year, look for NEW leadership, a NEW attitude and a strong unified stand by the pilots. SU is in the process of sending out that message--in a very BIG way!

We "crave" kinship? A strange choice of wording, but, yes, we do enjoy camaraderie and, more importantly, firmly believe that cohesion is critical to the accomplishment of the stated goals of any group. Here's an example that many of us may see this time of year. For a standing ovation to occur, you must be willing to get on your feet. Someone has to stand up first. Those that feel strongly, do so, and soon others join them, until the entire audience makes a unified statement.

 

[Publishers]

Sorry Ace, I forgot our deal. Frankly I get all the whinning I can stand hanging around this airport.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Pub

Sorry Ace, I forgot our deal. Frankly I get all the whinning I can stand hanging around this airport.

That's better than me, I get all mine before I get out the door in the morning.

Ace