Moisture to leave?

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Ace, my husband says the Excel is a fun plane to fly and he likes his job duties. We're hopeful that a good/fair contract will be won by the pilots. When we discussed corporate flying, he cited the lack of security as a big problem. Many companies have decided to shut down their flight depts and become NJ customers, instead. Additionally, there is the problem of the 2 yr training contract that hew hires must sign. His is not quite finished. Another NJ pilot that I've exchanged emails with has taken your advice though. EB seems to be happier now; he had gotten too disgusted and bitter to stay. I'll say it again, many good pilots were lured there with empty promises. The pilot force is now demanding fair treatment and respect. If that isn't forthcoming, watch for others to follow EB's example of posting a farewell on the NJ board.

In the meantime, please cheer the NJ pilots on. The stand they are taking is important to the whole industry. NJW

The XL is small, slow and pays low. I wouldn't call it 'fun'. Training contract? With the double pay he'd make, he could just pay it off and still be left with more money. Corporations closing and going to Netjets? All of that is pretty much over, and besides, once you have one of those corp jobs, if they close you can always find another job. I get offers all the time (and it's not because of my looks or personallity). It's not a matter of supporting you guys, I'm just amazed that you stay somewhere where its an uphill battle. At some point smart people know when to move on.

Ace

 

[netjetwife]

Ace, it amazes me that some of you try to oversimplify a very complex situation and/or aren't able to see things through the eyes on another. There are some advantages to flying for Netjets, especially those outside of the money issue. Certainly the plane is slower than the F16, but it is also much easier to fly--less work and stress. On occassion, we'd go up as a family in a Cessna from the base flying club. Like you, I wondered how he could enjoy it so much, but had to be satisfied with his explanation that he enjoyed the more laid back aspect of the flying. He explained that many people focus on the thrill of flying fighters and fail to realize just how hard the pilot must work to stay on top of it all. Yes, there are some things (mostly the mental stimulation) about the F16 that he misses, but he can't get that in civilian flying.

Apparently, job hopping doesn't bother you. But we are fairly new to civilian aviation and came from a background of security. Remember, too, his first experience (American) wasn't a good one--laid off after 4 months. Corporate flying may work great for you, but it doesn't appeal to him. You'll have to envision me shrugging my shoulders... On the other hand, fighting for a good contract is something that he/we see as worthwhile and the projects that he has been working on for SU have interested him. There are a lot of factors to consider, and family dynamics make it even more complicated.

I agree that at SOME POINT, a smart person knows when to move on. Had the TA passed, instead of being voted down overwhelmingly, that point would have been easy to identify, and he'd have left. But there is also a lot to be said for weighing one's options and considering them carefully. Which brings us back to that crystal ball, Ace. What payscale will the NJ pilots wind up with? He likes the variety of the job, doesn't have to worry about commuting, and can work past age 60---our youngest will be in college at that time. The REALLY frustrating thing about this, is that they SHOULD have had a final contract by now. Yes, Ace, smart, experienced pilots will get tired of waiting and move on. To me, that is sad, because everyone loses--the company, the other pilots that person flew with, and the owners. So wrong and so unnecessary.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

NJW:

Even with all you said (and it was a lot ), I still believe that unless you two like beating your heads against a wall...leave (or at least start looking). I like flying slow, relaxing airplanes too. For a HOBBY. Face the facts: your husband is flying more legs into more unknown airports with more unknown passengers than anyone. And that = MORE stress and exposure. Don't job hop, I agree. But you have been promissed a contract for years! Enjoy the heck out of his job, for whatever reasons, or get out. He'll be happier and you'll be happier. Unresolved issues about his future can't be good for the family.

See how much I care...

Ace (aka big, soft cuddly guy)

 

[netjetwife]

Ace, the things about the NJ situation that bother us so---unfairness and lack of respect towards the pilots/families--would still continue to do that even if he left. So for now, we are volunteering our time to build unity and fight for a good/fair contract. There is a lot of potential for success, and the things you see as stress, he calls variety and enjoys. We think having to worry about commuting would be stressful....but then....you're suggesting corporate flying, aren't you? Now THAT is an unknown territory for him...

This may sound strange, Ace, but he's enjoying the fight---you could say that our hearts are in it. Knowing the other pilots/families involved gives an added dimension to the struggle that an outsider doesn't have. Though perhaps you are beginning to understand it, after all, you say you care about my family. Now magnify that concern many times over (meaning the number of families) and you'll appreciate our position. We're looking at a lot more than the bottom line (though I'll admit that's a big "distraction"...lol) and it's not an easy decision.

Hey, no fair laughing at the length of my post... You have raised a complicated subject, and the explaining is all on my side. You'll get no sympathy from me...lol...you know what they say--be careful what you ask for...lol That said, I do have a card for you---

http://www.bluemountain.com/view.pd?i=109461808&m=1932&rr=y&source=bma999

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

NJW:

I'm starting to get a profile. This 'union' gig is much more like the big family you had in the military. I think everyone DOES see that you sort of enjoy fighting the 'good' fight. If it gives you happiness or sense of purpose, I can't argue that. I'm just stating the dumb, obvious stuff that I always tend to see. Better job, better planes (although my wife thinks I spend way too much time shopping with the flight attendant), better pay, and a company that doesn't screw you, is an obvious move for your hubby. Stay / leave...it's your descision, my point is only that it may not be for the reasons you've been writing about for so long.

Warmly...

Ace

 

[netjetwife]

Your profile fits us, I will agree. From contacting the families in our area to arrange get togethers--my efforts--to his working on SU projects--something like the additional duties AF officers routinely did, we are happier with the new unity currently forming at NJA. Interesting dilemma, isn't it? Caught in a web of our own making, no less. I still feel the same about all the issues--that hasn't changed. If anything, I feel the emotions --anger, frustration, outrage, disappointment--even stronger now because it is no longer just about my husband and my family, but many others at NJ that we have come to know while fighting the fight. Incidentially, I'm hosting a playdate tomorrow for another NJ wife and her children--our daughters are the same age.

Regardless of the final outcome, taking a stand and helping build unity is the right thing to do, and one we don't regret. If your intuition should next tell you that we are feeling torn, I'll plead guilty to that as well.

Say hello to your wife for me....
NJW

 

[FAcFriend]

ACE
I agree so much with what you have said here. Often in the business world i find people gripe alot about their jobs and want more pay. When they finally go looking (often because they are let go because their disgruntled nature brings everyone down) they have a hard time replacing what they had-

It is a trade off at NJA. There are alot of things the pilots really like. They want everything they love about their jobs, ability to live wherever, security that come with a union, AND to be paid like other pilots who work more hours, do not have the security, and move alot.

Noone can blame them for trying.

Any basic econ book will explain the economic impact unions have on companies. These guys do not see the benefits as cost items for the company. Good for union for doing a great job with information- Sometimes it seems like the SU guys are making promises too - hey, that is an election

 

[Starman]

Hey Fiend,

Nobody is buying your management hoohah here. Run along back to your office on Bridgeway and try and earn your paycheck instead of posting on a message board.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Does FAcFriend work for you guys?

 

[Fozzy]

"AND to be paid like other pilots who work more hours, do not have the security, and move alot."

Hey FracFool. You have no idea what you are talking about. Name one corporate flight department that flys more hours that the frac's.

I am flying as much here as I was at the commuters.

Get back to work screwing up the catering order!