Missed Approach/No Comms/No Hold

[JettBoii]

You have no comms, you go missed on the approach and there is no place to hold. What would you do?

I would head for the alternate. I think Carlsbad has this.

Thanks.

 

[goodgig]

I don't know of an approach without a hold on the missed?

 

[AC560]

You have no comms, you go missed on the approach and there is no place to hold. What would you do?

I would do whatever wouldn't get my passengers or myself killed, don't fear 91.3(b) embrace it. The FAA can only pull your ticket if you live.

I don't know of an approach without a hold on the missed?

http://www.myairplane.com/databases/approach/pdfs/05310IL24.PDFILS OR LOC RWY 24

 

[Way2Broke]

Here is the answer from the FAA Instrument Procedure Handbook

"The missed approach course begins at the MAP and continues until the aircraft has reached the designated fix and a holding pattern has been entered, unless there is no holding pattern published for the missed approach. It is common at large airports with high traffic volume to not have a holding pattern depicted at the designated fix. [Figure 5-22 on the next page] In these circumstances, the departure controller will issue further instructions before the aircraft reaches the final fix of the missed approach course. It is also common for the designated fix to be an IAF so that another approach attempt can be made without having to fly from the holding fix to an IAF.


Now my personal opinion and what I would do.
After the approach you would be expected to either divert or put yourself back on the approach by following the feeder route at 4k to the IAF. You could also be expected to go to your alternate. I think all the airspace for both would be cleared for you and because both could be expected your not busting any reg, in fact you are following it to the T. Which one you do is a judgment call and is highly scenario based (WX, Fuel, etc)

 

[landlover]

no coms and going missed, see you at my alternate. i think its in the aim somewhere but i am too lazy to find it for you.

 

[JAFI]

I would do whatever wouldn't get my passengers or myself killed, don't fear 91.3(b) embrace it. The FAA can only pull your ticket if you live

Correct! 91.3 (b) needs to be read more often. You can - LEGALY - deviate from any reg to MEET AN EMERGENCY. IMHO, a no comm situation in IMC would qualify. (don't forget your cell phone can work if you keep some ATC phone numbers handy)

Just do not be the one to "make" the emergency - like proceding into IMC weather as a VMC only pilot...... You will most likely have to explain that part......

91.3 Responsibility and authority of the pilot in command.
(a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.
(b) In an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action, the pilot in command may deviate from any rule of this part to the extent required to meet that emergency.


JAFI

 

[QuasarZ]

I would head to the alternate, and call up ATC or Flight serivce on my cell phone and see if I can reach them. But then again, I carry a handheld radio so I could use that too.

 

[Way2Broke]

no coms and going missed, see you at my alternate. i think its in the aim somewhere but i am too lazy to find it for you.

Again I would still have to look at the entire situation to make a decision here, how do you know that your alternates weather hasn't taken a dive?

I still think you can not answer the question without being given a full scenario. (Flt plan, WX, Fuel, What equipment, maybe you went around the first time at 200 ft to DA because of a plane on the runway, but you had just broken out, etc)

I'm not saying anyone here is wrong, because they arn't. Simply that its a situational awareness type decision.

 

[JettBoii]

Thanks guys. I am all for the alternate myself.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Then, of course, there's the flip side to this question...if there IS a hold, how long do you hold before continuing on to your alternate, since you've lost comms?:bomb:

And no, ATC did not issue you an EFC prior to shooting the approach

Fly safe!

David

 

[Prof. ATP]

But then again, I carry a handheld radio so I could use that too.

Not always. I've been in lost comm situations when ATC's equipment failed.

BTW, ATC does not know your alternate, unless things have changed recently. It's stored with your flight plan, at FSS or DUATS.

 

[Sam Snead]

I would only go to the alternate if I thought there was little chance to get in to the destination, either by trying the approach again, or perhaps trying a different approach/runway.

If you go to the alternate, you're taking a bigger risk (assuming the weather stays IMC for you) because as Prof ATP pointed out ATC does not have instantaneous access to your stated alternate, and they may or may not clear out the correct airspace as you proceed there.

Also if your transponder doesn't work, they might be guessing as to your exact location, trying to identify you off of primary return only. Nevermind non-radar "dead spots".

Overall, leaving the destination area under Lost Comm and in IMC is something I would be reluctant to do.

 

[nosehair]

Don't forget to turn up the volume on the vor that you are navigating on. Listen for FSS to relay ATC instructions.

If you can navigate, (with vor) you have communications.

 

[PURPLEHAZE21]

Always know where VMC conditions exist. Your whiskey compass is there for a reason...its not to drink at altitude.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Don't forget to turn up the volume on the vor that you are navigating on. Listen for FSS to relay ATC instructions.

If you can navigate, (with vor) you have communications.

Unless, of course, the reason that you lost comms is that you fried your audio panel, and have no method of bypass.

Fly safe!

David

 

[Princedietrich]

I'm going to have to side with JAFI and AC560 on this one. If I'm in IMC and I've got a comm failure, I'm invoking 91.3 and getting my butt on the ground even if it means a zero/zero landing. Yes, it can be done and I actually have done it (in a level C sim).

Now, if you don't have the skill level to do a zero/zero landing, or if you just don't feel safe/confident enough to do it, then by all means go miss and head somewhere that's more sunny.