Misleading ALPA Press Release about ATA's Shutdown

[Jimmy C. Corn]

Notice that the flamebaiter didn't deny that he was any of the aforementioned flamebaiters.

yes, I am all of those people.

I mean that with the same sincerity as an ALPA pledge to its membership.

In other words, I'm lying through my teeth.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You have no business presuming to tell pilots what they should think. But I guess that's ALPA's specialty..

As an elected rep....he did think..... and offered opinon...in the best intrest of his pilot group...

are you offrnded by opinion?

what have you done to better the profession...

In other words, I'm lying through my teeth.

if you are lying, how do we know they are your teeth?

 

[Jimmy C. Corn]

if you are lying, how do we know they are your teeth?

You got me.

If all the ALPA leaders are as brilliant as you are, I don't know why I'm so concerned.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You got me.

If all the ALPA leaders are as brilliant as you are, I don't know why I'm so concerned.

liar!! what happened to your forked tongue??

 

[flynlow]

Rez and Jimmy please take your arguements to pm or another thread.

Also comparing hourly rates between World and ATA doesn't take into account the difference in guarentees. Or rigs, over rides, and overtime rules. Like I said before I think the most costly labor contract is the one in Chap. 11 right now. It's also very interesting to see that many of our airplanes are now ending up at airports with known paint facilities. Things are happening very fast for an unknown Chap. 11 filing. I would hope that if any of these aircraft end up at our "sister" companies that our "brothers" would help make things right. But I know better than to think they will.

 

[servicemonkey]

I would hope that if any of these aircraft end up at our "sister" companies that our "brothers" would help make things right. But I know better than to think they will.

I'm sure your World "brothers" would do exactly the same as our ATA "brothers" if we were in your position.

 

[MD11Drvr]

What would the ATA pilots propose is making it right?

Do you want to bump WOA/NAA pilots out of thier seats?

Do you feel an automatic seniority number at WOA/NAA is warranted and for that matter MP also owns Arrow Air now and a controlling stake in Varig Log. Is a seniority number also expected from those two carriers since they are MP as well.

It's a Da*n shame what has happened to ATA but I am not sure why there is a perceived entitlement to jobs at either carrier. Preferential interviews are to be offered and I sincerely hope all find the job they need or want but this is a reality in this business and many have walked this path before.

We are being told we will not be seeing any of the DC-10's ATA had operating any time soon if at all. They will be tied up in the courts for some time. I am not saying that could not be BS from Mgmt but that is what they are saying. Even if they were to send them WOA could not crew them for a year or more.

I have no real desire to turn this into a bash ATA/WOA/NAA thread and that is not the intention. I have met many ATA crews through the years and they were all very fine folks of the highest caliber so I really do want them to land with the gear down and locked so to speak.

Good Luck to us all since who knows what will be next maybe WOA's DC-10,747 and MD-11's going to Arrow Air since they have an even cheaper contract than WOA.

 

[flynlow]

As I stated in my first post in this thread I said that ATA pilots should not be bumping anyone out of seats. I do feel that IF (and yes that's a big if) any of our old aircraft end up on either of the other GAL properties then they should be filled with ATA pilots with seniority. So to answer your question yes I do feel we are owed a number if any airplanes are transferred. That doesn't even get into the fact that our flying is obviously being picked up even without the airplanes. The seamless transition of a planefull of troops moved from an ATA plane to a WOA one during a tech stop on the way to the sandbox is a perfect example.

Your example of WOA airplanes going to Arrow is exactly the type of situation ATA pilots were trying prevent by merging the seniority lists and contracts. It is obviously more easy to swallow a management ********************e sandwich when someone else is doing the swallowing. That doesn't prevent you from trying to do the right thing in the meantime.

Anyone working under a parent/umbrella/holding company operating multiple airlines/certificates is under the same danger as we at ATA were. If you don't fight this now it will be too late when the ax falls. Ask me how I know? Whipsawing and getting rid of the most expensive labor contracts is as easy as a quick Chap. 11 and send the flying to the cheapest labor group. Learn from the history here or you may be doomed to repeat it.

 

[servicemonkey]

Flynlow, what willl be your take when another carrier like Northwest, Omni, or Miami Air(for example) picks up some of ATAs AMC flying? You know they will (esp. NWA,just wait and see). I suspect other carriers will benefit more, at least in the short term, from ATAs flying than WOA/NA.
World does not have the ability to pick up much more flying with its present fleet/crew size, at least not today, though I'm sure we will pick up some as will NA. I'll leave it to our MEC to try to figure that out.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but ATA has been losing money for quite some time. Is that real or was it "creative" accounting so as to get rid of the most "expensive " carrier If you look at the BK filing, you'll see where World made a loan to ATA, I don't know for how much. I do know that when GAL brought WAH a year ago, we had about $47 million cash on hand. I doubt we have that now. To say what would have happened if GAL hadn't of bought WAH would be conjecture but I wonder if ATA would have lasted this long. I recall someone saying on this board a while back that charter companies need to stay out of scheduled service. It almost shut World down about 25 years ago.

 

[Bellerophon]

I do not think we at World will be joining the Fed Ex team next year. I have not heard any plans for west coast to Hawaii flying in the works either. From what we hear all ATA airplanes are going back owners.

Yes there may be some short term business with AMC (our most important customer) so to not leave military men and women stranded all over the world like the passengers I see on TV in Hawaii. However, if you form a legal picket line then we will not cross it (that language is in our contract) and AMC can find someone else to fly them. We cannot fight your battles for you, only with you.

I have seen both contracts. Blaming your shutdown on World pilots undercutting your contract holds no water.

If your aircraft show up at World flying for the Fed Ex team (or any team except the Alliance team) or west coast to Hawaii on a codeshare with SWA, I would say you have an argument for ATA pilots to come in seniority order. If not, you will have a fight on your hands to take our seats on our current aircraft of any future aircraft.

Sorry for the tough love,

Bel