Misleading ALPA Press Release about ATA's Shutdown

[WabiSabi]

Release #08.ATA2
April 3, 2008

ATA Pilots Blast Management’s Late-Night Decision to Cease Operations

CHICAGO—The union representing the pilots of ATA Airlines is condemning the airline’s management for its callous disregard of its employees and passengers in canceling all operations without warning early on Thursday morning.
“By shutting down in the middle of the night, this management group has let down its loyal customers and the flight crews, cabin crews, mechanics, and other employees who have made deep sacrifices over the past few years to keep ATA afloat,” said Capt. Steve Staples, chairman of the ATA unit of the Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l. “It shows an utter lack of respect and illustrates the ruthlessness of Wall Street hedge fund managers who have no knowledge or interest in the companies they own.”
ALPA was notified at approximately 4:00 a.m. Central time that the airline was filing for bankruptcy and shutting down all operations immediately. The airline’s last flight was ATA Flight 4586, a morning red-eye from Honolulu to Phoenix that was scheduled to land at 8:34 a.m. Pacific time.
“ATA’s customers and employees had absolutely no warning that the airline was going out of business,” Staples said. “This abrupt withdrawal is the airline equivalent of getting on the last helicopter out of Saigon.”
The April 3 announcement that ATA is ceasing operations is two days shy of the first anniversary of ATA’s announcement that its holding company was buying World Airways and North American Airlines. On April 5, 2007, ATA Holdings changed its name to Global Aero Logistics (GAL) and, in August 2007 completed the transaction that gave it three airlines: ATA, World, and North American. GAL is privately held by the hedge fund MatlinPatterson Global Opportunities Partners II.
“We find it unusually coincidental that ALPA, which was in contract negotiations with ATA and had the best opportunity to change our collective bargaining agreement to reflect the new realities of the industry, was suddenly forced to shut down while World and North American will continue operating under the Global Aero Logistics banner,” Staples said. “Since when does the acquiring airline go out of business while the acquired airlines keep flying?”
Staples said that all ATA employees are the ultimate victims of a series of incompetent managers who chose to blame economic conditions for the airline’s problems instead of admitting their own mistakes.
“We were telling management two years ago that they needed to institute a fuel management program, and even found a fuel consultant who offered to work with the company—but our overtures to help ATA reduce its fuel costs were repeatedly ignored,” he said. “Management decided to outsource virtually all of our maintenance, then acquired elderly, unreliable DC-10s that needed extensive repairs. The ripple effect of years of poor management decisions—not the current economy—was what doomed ATA.”
Staples said the union’s top priority is making sure that all 585 ATA pilots and flight engineers find new jobs, especially since part of ATA’s fleet has been transferred to World Airways and more airplanes could go to World and North American later.
“Our position is that we are pilots of Global Aero Logistics, which is still operating, and we deserve to be in the cockpits of Global’s airliners. Our contract says that the pilots go with the airplanes, and we will use every legal means available to us to ensure that our members’ rights are protected,” he said.
Founded in 1931, ALPA is the world’s largest pilots’ union, representing 61,000 pilots at 43 airlines in the U.S. and Canada. Visit the ALPA Web site at http://www.alpa.org.

My sympathies goes out to ATA's employee's but, the highlighted statement is not even close to the truth. ATA did not buy anyone....they didn't have the money in the first place. ATA Holdings (that owned ATA) and World Air Holdings (that owned World and North American) merged to form Global Aero Logistics. The airlines are on separate certificates. It is not as if World and North American rode ATA's coat tails.

The last quote is also very interesting.

 

[Max Powers]

Coming from "mesaba holding" or I should say MAIR holdings with mesaba airlines underneath I am sure there is much more to this story. ATA pilots had a much higher pay scale than NA or World. In regard to work rules and pay.

Let me guess World and N. american is going to be hiring and picking up a but load of flying.

Any know the real skinny on this?

 

[WabiSabi]

ATA pilots had a much higher pay scale than NA or World. In regard to work rules and pay.

According to APC's posted pay scales, you're not entirely correct. World's pay is higher. ATA's pay did beat North American's.

I don't know about ATA's work rules, but World's work rules (especially in regard to reserve) are pretty spiffy!

 

[Megadeth]

So what is the ATA's MEC Chairman suggesting?

Should all the ATA pilots come over to World and Kick us out of our Cockpits?


This guy needs to STFU.

 

[MD11Drvr]

ATA's lack of recent expierience with the DC-10 did not help. While the pilot pool is a talented group, the folks managing the DC-10 program did a less than stellar job when it came to manuals and training programs as demonstrated by the difficulties ATA faced with its program and the delays it caused.

The feeling that ATA was the aquiring carrier and subsequent desire to drive the boat made many at WOA and NAA wary of thier intentions. I got the feeling from some that since they were ALPA they were ordained to dictate the terms. There were many factors effecting conditions at ATA and 99% were out of the realm of the average line dog. There is no doubt they gave much to try and insure thier survival but in the end thier efforts failed to no fault of thier own. I hope WOA and NAA can pick up all that want to come here but I also hope thier is no percieved right to a seniority number because there isn't. If the tables were turned I feel ATA pilots would say the same thing whether they will admit it or not. I do feel that a year ago when GAL was formed was the time to forge a healthy relationship between pilot groups but since this did happen we have arrived at a less than desirable end. From my perception we tried but failed due the incorrect assumption of who aquired what and who had the bigger johnson. I sincerely hope all at ATA end up on thier feet and never forget "By the grace of God go I"

 

[jehtplane]

ATA's lack of recent expierience with the DC-10 did not help. While the pilot pool is a talented group, the folks managing the DC-10 program did a less than stellar job when it came to manuals and training programs as demonstrated by the difficulties ATA faced with its program and the delays it caused.

The feeling that ATA was the aquiring carrier and subsequent desire to drive the boat made many at WOA and NAA wary of thier intentions. I got the feeling from some that since they were ALPA they were ordained to dictate the terms. There were many factors effecting conditions at ATA and 99% were out of the realm of the average line dog. There is no doubt they gave much to try and insure thier survival but in the end thier efforts failed to no fault of thier own. I hope WOA and NAA can pick up all that want to come here but I also hope thier is no percieved right to a seniority number because there isn't. If the tables were turned I feel ATA pilots would say the same thing whether they will admit it or not. I do feel that a year ago when GAL was formed was the time to forge a healthy relationship between pilot groups but since this did happen we have arrived at a less than desirable end. From my perception we tried but failed due the incorrect assumption of who aquired what and who had the bigger johnson. I sincerely hope all at ATA end up on thier feet and never forget "By the grace of God go I"

Well said. As a former NAA pilot, I would be very surprised to see any of those 757's over at NAA.

 

[ultrarunner]

I find it interesting that ALPA believes anyone would care what they think. That press release was a waste of ALPA's time, IMHO.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I find it interesting that ALPA believes anyone would care what they think. That press release was a waste of ALPA's time, IMHO.

Yet you expect us to believe we would care what you think? Interesting.....

Your post (and mine) are a complete waste of our time.

 

[Jimmy C. Corn]

Yet you expect us to believe we would care what you think? Interesting.....

Your post (and mine) are a complete waste of our time.

I'm new on this forum, but after reading many of your current and previous posts, I have added you to my ignore list.

Your ability to communicate with the ALPA rank-and-file (me included) is non-existent.

Your ranting has the effect of driving those on the fence away from ALPA.

Your logic is not rational, nor can anyone follow it. Your writing style is not coherent.

You may be hard-working, but based on your poorly defended positions, you are likely not an intelligent person.

You are not a good ALPA spokesman (or cheerleader).

I don't like you.

 

[ultrarunner]

Yet you expect us to believe we would care what you think? Interesting.....

Absolutely not!

Your post (and mine) are a complete waste of our time.

Of course. This is FI, not ALPA.

I'd expect more from ALPA, but not FI.

enjoy

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I'm new on this forum, but after reading many of your current and previous posts, I have added you to my ignore list.

Your ability to communicate with the ALPA rank-and-file (me included) is non-existent.

Your ranting has the effect of driving those on the fence away from ALPA.

Your logic is not rational, nor can anyone follow it. Your writing style is not coherent.

You may be hard-working, but based on your poorly defended positions, you are likely not an intelligent person.

You are not a good ALPA spokesman (or cheerleader).

I don't like you.

Why am I typing this.... you are ignoring me!

It was sarcasm! Complex humor! dare I say witty??

 

[flynlow]

As one of the guys involved in the DC-10 program, the mid level guys did an amazing job of pulling the program together in the amount of time given. Sure there were nits here and there in manuals etc but that had no bearing on the outcome of the DC-10 operations. The biggest problems were the layoffs of too any mechanics while switching to contract maintenance and simultaniously aquiring DC-10's which had to be reconfigured to an all coach cabin. Anyone who has tried to get a new "old" fleet up to speed knows that it will take more maintenance hours to do so not less. So the aircraft dispatch rates suffered. That being said they were getting better towards the end.

ATA's workrules were above average for the type of flying we did on the DC-10. Our contract was geared more towards scheduled service back in our "big" years. So there was a lot of money to be made on the widebodies doing international long trips. Long trips for us being over 9 days not 18. I'm sure the most costly contract is now the one being trampled in Chap 11 once again. Apparently all the airframes are going back to the leasing companies except the L10's as they were owned outright. It will indeed be interesting to see were those returned airframes end up. Anyone who belives that if these airplanes end up at NA or World and the ATA pilots shouldn't go with them is going to be scheduled for drug tests. Should we be bumping WOA or NAA guys out of their seats I don't think so but if there is growth due to our shutdown then it should be filled with our pilots and with some seniority.

 

[PCL_128]

I'm new on this forum

No you aren't. Your former screen names include flamebaiters such as jerk406, Tanker Clown, 400adud, etc... It's a shame that the mods haven't permanently banned your IP address by now.

 

[Jimmy C. Corn]

No you aren't. Your former screen names include flamebaiters such as jerk406, Tanker Clown, 400adud, etc... It's a shame that the mods haven't permanently banned your IP address by now.

It's a shame you cling to the misguided notion that you are some sort of god, who is able to pass judgment on anyone who does not agree with you.

Additionally, you appear to be a union cheerleader without any dignity or self-respect whatsoever...along with that Rezolution guy.

You have no business presuming to tell pilots what they should think. But I guess that's ALPA's specialty.

It's you who should be banned...for gross stupidity and toolishness.

 

[PCL_128]

Notice that the flamebaiter didn't deny that he was any of the aforementioned flamebaiters.

 

[Jimmy C. Corn]

Notice that the flamebaiter didn't deny that he was any of the aforementioned flamebaiters.

yes, I am all of those people.

I mean that with the same sincerity as an ALPA pledge to its membership.

In other words, I'm lying through my teeth.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You have no business presuming to tell pilots what they should think. But I guess that's ALPA's specialty..

As an elected rep....he did think..... and offered opinon...in the best intrest of his pilot group...

are you offrnded by opinion?

what have you done to better the profession...

In other words, I'm lying through my teeth.

if you are lying, how do we know they are your teeth?

 

[Jimmy C. Corn]

if you are lying, how do we know they are your teeth?

You got me.

If all the ALPA leaders are as brilliant as you are, I don't know why I'm so concerned.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You got me.

If all the ALPA leaders are as brilliant as you are, I don't know why I'm so concerned.

liar!! what happened to your forked tongue??

 

[flynlow]

Rez and Jimmy please take your arguements to pm or another thread.

Also comparing hourly rates between World and ATA doesn't take into account the difference in guarentees. Or rigs, over rides, and overtime rules. Like I said before I think the most costly labor contract is the one in Chap. 11 right now. It's also very interesting to see that many of our airplanes are now ending up at airports with known paint facilities. Things are happening very fast for an unknown Chap. 11 filing. I would hope that if any of these aircraft end up at our "sister" companies that our "brothers" would help make things right. But I know better than to think they will.

 

[servicemonkey]

I would hope that if any of these aircraft end up at our "sister" companies that our "brothers" would help make things right. But I know better than to think they will.

I'm sure your World "brothers" would do exactly the same as our ATA "brothers" if we were in your position.

 

[MD11Drvr]

What would the ATA pilots propose is making it right?

Do you want to bump WOA/NAA pilots out of thier seats?

Do you feel an automatic seniority number at WOA/NAA is warranted and for that matter MP also owns Arrow Air now and a controlling stake in Varig Log. Is a seniority number also expected from those two carriers since they are MP as well.

It's a Da*n shame what has happened to ATA but I am not sure why there is a perceived entitlement to jobs at either carrier. Preferential interviews are to be offered and I sincerely hope all find the job they need or want but this is a reality in this business and many have walked this path before.

We are being told we will not be seeing any of the DC-10's ATA had operating any time soon if at all. They will be tied up in the courts for some time. I am not saying that could not be BS from Mgmt but that is what they are saying. Even if they were to send them WOA could not crew them for a year or more.

I have no real desire to turn this into a bash ATA/WOA/NAA thread and that is not the intention. I have met many ATA crews through the years and they were all very fine folks of the highest caliber so I really do want them to land with the gear down and locked so to speak.

Good Luck to us all since who knows what will be next maybe WOA's DC-10,747 and MD-11's going to Arrow Air since they have an even cheaper contract than WOA.

 

[flynlow]

As I stated in my first post in this thread I said that ATA pilots should not be bumping anyone out of seats. I do feel that IF (and yes that's a big if) any of our old aircraft end up on either of the other GAL properties then they should be filled with ATA pilots with seniority. So to answer your question yes I do feel we are owed a number if any airplanes are transferred. That doesn't even get into the fact that our flying is obviously being picked up even without the airplanes. The seamless transition of a planefull of troops moved from an ATA plane to a WOA one during a tech stop on the way to the sandbox is a perfect example.

Your example of WOA airplanes going to Arrow is exactly the type of situation ATA pilots were trying prevent by merging the seniority lists and contracts. It is obviously more easy to swallow a management ********************e sandwich when someone else is doing the swallowing. That doesn't prevent you from trying to do the right thing in the meantime.

Anyone working under a parent/umbrella/holding company operating multiple airlines/certificates is under the same danger as we at ATA were. If you don't fight this now it will be too late when the ax falls. Ask me how I know? Whipsawing and getting rid of the most expensive labor contracts is as easy as a quick Chap. 11 and send the flying to the cheapest labor group. Learn from the history here or you may be doomed to repeat it.

 

[servicemonkey]

Flynlow, what willl be your take when another carrier like Northwest, Omni, or Miami Air(for example) picks up some of ATAs AMC flying? You know they will (esp. NWA,just wait and see). I suspect other carriers will benefit more, at least in the short term, from ATAs flying than WOA/NA.
World does not have the ability to pick up much more flying with its present fleet/crew size, at least not today, though I'm sure we will pick up some as will NA. I'll leave it to our MEC to try to figure that out.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but ATA has been losing money for quite some time. Is that real or was it "creative" accounting so as to get rid of the most "expensive " carrier If you look at the BK filing, you'll see where World made a loan to ATA, I don't know for how much. I do know that when GAL brought WAH a year ago, we had about $47 million cash on hand. I doubt we have that now. To say what would have happened if GAL hadn't of bought WAH would be conjecture but I wonder if ATA would have lasted this long. I recall someone saying on this board a while back that charter companies need to stay out of scheduled service. It almost shut World down about 25 years ago.

 

[Bellerophon]

I do not think we at World will be joining the Fed Ex team next year. I have not heard any plans for west coast to Hawaii flying in the works either. From what we hear all ATA airplanes are going back owners.

Yes there may be some short term business with AMC (our most important customer) so to not leave military men and women stranded all over the world like the passengers I see on TV in Hawaii. However, if you form a legal picket line then we will not cross it (that language is in our contract) and AMC can find someone else to fly them. We cannot fight your battles for you, only with you.

I have seen both contracts. Blaming your shutdown on World pilots undercutting your contract holds no water.

If your aircraft show up at World flying for the Fed Ex team (or any team except the Alliance team) or west coast to Hawaii on a codeshare with SWA, I would say you have an argument for ATA pilots to come in seniority order. If not, you will have a fight on your hands to take our seats on our current aircraft of any future aircraft.

Sorry for the tough love,

Bel