Mindset of the typical US Airways east pilot?

[waveflyer]

350,
I get that it's important, but you've read the award. You know Nicolau ABSOLUTELY DID consider those items- you just disagree with his assessment.

As for the history- isn't that the very definition of apathy?

If you'd always held this DOH stance and put it down in the history books through effort and action before this merger, you might have a leg to stand on. Maybe if you'd been proactive, understood your risk and bailed on ALPA forming usapa BEFORE this merger- things would have gone differently.
As it is- how are you not responsible for CHOOSING TO UNDERCUT ALL OF OUR CAREER over a misguided view of what seniority is.

It's not a longevity integration. It's a seniority integration. If you're furloughed or at or near the bottom of a list- YOU ARE AT RISK. YOU HAVE NO SENIORITY TO BE INTEGRATED INTO. This is embarrassingly simple airline stuff. Our love hate decidedly not merit oriented seniority system is Airline 101. Riddle grads understand this sh/t

My question is- I do this career for money. I do love flying. But it is a paycheck. I clearly don't have widebody envy, as you can see from where I chose to work- but isn't there a line where working under LOA 93 is less beneficial than implementing the Nic. Besides you only have 30 widebodies... Are you really chasing the carrot that bad?
Is the experience of flying captain on a widebody for SWA FO wages that big a deal? Is that what you are then? Just a dressed up GULFSTREAM airlines where instead of PFTing them $25k,you leave $millions on the table so you can say you're a heavy pilot?

This FIGHT, is so ingrained now, it's become a cause unto itself without logical application of what the Nic award actually would mean.

I promise you, the world will keep spinning. Looking at the list, it's not the career Armageddon you fear. It just isn't.

Has it been worth it? How do you justify being party to a divide and conquer? Parker gets to be Lorenzo without the blame

How can you take this stand under LOA 93 wages?
http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/legacy/us_airways
The VAST MAJORITY OF YOUR CAPTAINS MAKE $125/hour (or much less e-190= $101/hour)

You've got republic flying e175's for $40k more per year than their mainline counterparts on worse work rules.

So happy when this gets resolved and hope that APA integrates the Nic and you guys all MOVE ON WITH YOUR CAREER AND LIVES.
Sincerely- but no matter- please realize you've lost something that is much more valuable to me- respect. Industry wide.
I've got NO skin in this -other than I resent being undercut so badly wage wise. Just another former legacy pilot, multiple airline industry guy that has truly lost respect for the collective AAA group.

 

[waveflyer]

350,
I get that it's important, but you've read the award. You know Nicolau ABSOLUTELY DID consider those items- you just disagree with his assessment.

As for the history- isn't that the very definition of apathy?

If you'd always held this DOH stance and put it down in the history books through effort and action before this merger, you might have a leg to stand on. Maybe if you'd been proactive, understood your risk and bailed on ALPA forming usapa BEFORE this merger- things would have gone differently.
As it is- how are you not responsible for CHOOSING TO UNDERCUT ALL OF OUR CAREER over a misguided view of what seniority is.

It's not a longevity integration. It's a seniority integration. If you're furloughed or at or near the bottom of a list- YOU ARE AT RISK. YOU HAVE NO SENIORITY TO BE INTEGRATED INTO. This is embarrassingly simple airline stuff. Our love hate decidedly not merit oriented seniority system is Airline 101. Riddle grads understand this sh/t

My question is- I do this career for money. I do love flying. But it is a paycheck. I clearly don't have widebody envy, as you can see from where I chose to work- but isn't there a line where working under LOA 93 is less beneficial than implementing the Nic? Besides you only have 30 widebodies. Think about that. You have 4 more heavy jets than Hawaiian. Are you really chasing the carrot that bad?
Is the experience of flying captain on a widebody for SWA FO wages that big a deal? Is that what you are then? Just a dressed up GULFSTREAM airlines where instead of PFTing them $25k,you leave $millions on the table so you can say you're a heavy driver?

This FIGHT, is so ingrained now, it's become a cause unto itself without logical application of what the Nic award actually would mean.

I promise you, the world will keep spinning. Looking at the list, it's not the career Armageddon you fear. It just isn't.

Has it been worth it? How do you justify being party to a divide and conquer? Parker gets to be Lorenzo without the blame

How can you take this stand under LOA 93 wages?
http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/legacy/us_airways
The VAST MAJORITY OF YOUR CAPTAINS MAKE $125/hour (or much less e-190= $101/hour)

You've got republic flying e175's for $40k more per year than their mainline counterparts on better work rules.

So happy when this gets resolved and hope that APA integrates the Nic and you guys all MOVE ON WITH YOUR CAREER AND LIVES.
Sincerely- but no matter- please realize you've lost something that is much more valuable to me- respect. Industry wide.
I've got NO skin in this -other than I resent being undercut so badly wage wise. Just another former legacy pilot, multiple airline industry guy that has truly lost respect for the collective AAA group.

 

[doh]

Wave, that is beautifully said!

 

[Guppiedriver]

350,
I get that it's important, but you've read the award. You know Nicolau ABSOLUTELY DID consider those items- you just disagree with his assessment.

As for the history- isn't that the very definition of apathy?

If you'd always held this DOH stance and put it down in the history books through effort and action before this merger, you might have a leg to stand on. Maybe if you'd been proactive, understood your risk and bailed on ALPA forming usapa BEFORE this merger- things would have gone differently.
As it is- how are you not responsible for CHOOSING TO UNDERCUT ALL OF OUR CAREER over a misguided view of what seniority is.

It's not a longevity integration. It's a seniority integration. If you're furloughed or at or near the bottom of a list- YOU ARE AT RISK. YOU HAVE NO SENIORITY TO BE INTEGRATED INTO. This is embarrassingly simple airline stuff. Our love hate decidedly not merit oriented seniority system is Airline 101. Riddle grads understand this sh/t

My question is- I do this career for money. I do love flying. But it is a paycheck. I clearly don't have widebody envy, as you can see from where I chose to work- but isn't there a line where working under LOA 93 is less beneficial than implementing the Nic. Besides you only have 30 widebodies... Are you really chasing the carrot that bad?
Is the experience of flying captain on a widebody for SWA FO wages that big a deal? Is that what you are then? Just a dressed up GULFSTREAM airlines where instead of PFTing them $25k,you leave $millions on the table so you can say you're a heavy pilot?

This FIGHT, is so ingrained now, it's become a cause unto itself without logical application of what the Nic award actually would mean.

I promise you, the world will keep spinning. Looking at the list, it's not the career Armageddon you fear. It just isn't.

Has it been worth it? How do you justify being party to a divide and conquer? Parker gets to be Lorenzo without the blame

How can you take this stand under LOA 93 wages?
http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/legacy/us_airways
The VAST MAJORITY OF YOUR CAPTAINS MAKE $125/hour (or much less e-190= $101/hour)

You've got republic flying e175's for $40k more per year than their mainline counterparts on worse work rules.

So happy when this gets resolved and hope that APA integrates the Nic and you guys all MOVE ON WITH YOUR CAREER AND LIVES.
Sincerely- but no matter- please realize you've lost something that is much more valuable to me- respect. Industry wide.
I've got NO skin in this -other than I resent being undercut so badly wage wise. Just another former legacy pilot, multiple airline industry guy that has truly lost respect for the collective AAA group.

Very well said, Wave.

 

[Dan Roman]

. So, what is only fair is if an AMerican West pilot who was hired in 2002 is placed below the 2001 hired pilot. What is wrong with that?

I doubt I'll be a eloquent as Wave, he nailed it above, but, here's the deal with DOH. It get's trumped by career expectations. Let's take 2 hypothetical airlines. Airline A has a history of making mistake after mistake, poor equipment choices, unwise mergers, whatever, they have terrible labor/management relations due to mistakes on both sides and is finally running out of cash. They have massive furloughs and are looking to be a candidate to join Braniff, Pan Am, TWA, EAL etc in that airline graveyard in the sky. Airline B....doing everything right, is growing, taking care of their employees and enjoying healthy profits and hiring. Maybe labor and management worked together to get them to were they are.
They merge.
Let's say the junior Captains at airline B have the same DOH as a furloughed airline A pilot that doesn't expect to get recalled. You really think straight DOH is fair? If you were at the healthy airline?

 

[waveflyer]

Well said dan

 

[A350]

Don't have a dog in the fight either....anymore, but understand why they did what they did and support them as they were my brothers and I think they got screwed.

If the union got off their ass and had a merger policy that wasn't so up to interpretation and easier to implement....you wouldn't have this problem.

A350

 

[Bringupthebird]

Well said wave. 350 admits that the east allowed pride and overconfidence to consume them and the industry paid the price.

 

[TWA Dude]

You really think straight DOH is fair? If you were at the healthy airline?

While I certainly agree with your sentiment I advise caution when referring to financial health of an airline. One can adequately discuss career expectations without bringing that bogeyman up.

Suffice it to say the USAir pilots in 2005 had zero career expectations and the reason is irrelevant. Even Nicolau didn't dwell on that; he simply stated the Easties had far more to gain from the merger than the West. Facts like these drive liars like St. Nic and his indistinguishable East buddies crazy.

 

[Bringupthebird]

The east was burning through cash at an unsustainable rate. No one would loan them more money. The credit card companies demanded holdbacks that put them perilously close to violating the ATSB loan covenants.