Mindset of the typical US Airways east pilot?

[A350]

wave.....

Do you really reside in a fantasy world where you believe a USAir pilot would have any luck in changing ALPA merger policy?

The elephants control this. And no matter what, ALPA only changed it again because they couldn't afford to have another merger mess on their hands and potentially lose another airline group after the East pilots took their ball and went home.

ALPA didn't understand that you cant screw with the majority of any group and expect a decent outcome in the end. The Nic, agree with it or not, screwed the majority and the result was pretty predictable.

A350

 

[Dan Roman]

wave.....

Do you really reside in a fantasy world where you believe a USAir pilot would have any luck in changing ALPA merger policy?

The elephants control this. And no matter what, ALPA only changed it again because they couldn't afford to have another merger mess on their hands and potentially lose another airline group after the East pilots took their ball and went home.

ALPA didn't understand that you cant screw with the majority of any group and expect a decent outcome in the end. The Nic, agree with it or not, screwed the majority and the result was pretty predictable.

A350

You are trying to blame ALPA for not dealing with an impossible situation. On one hand you had an old established airline that had a lot of pilots on furlough that probably were not coming back and in fact, most saw that USAir was on the verge of being parted out. On the other hand you had an upstart airline that was not furloughing and in fact, had Captains hired after many of the USAir furloughees had been. While AWA was not exactly a financial powerhouse, they did have the resources to put together a deal that did, in fact, revive the East's careers. There was just not an easy solution or any way of merging this list civilly , the correct thing was to go to binding arbitration and then just move forward.
The fact that St Nic thinks a few pilots hired on the east side (were labor was cheapest) justifies the loss of a billion dollars or more to the pilot group shows just how irrational the USAPIAN train of thought can be.

 

[A350]

Dan:

ALPA gets paid to deal with impossible situations....however they suck at resolving them and love to duck and run when the chips are down.

Of course there was an acceptable way to do this....they just don't want to hear it.

Permanently disadvantaging the majority of a pilot group for the rest of their career when there were viable solutions available is where the wheels went off the wagon. (fences, conditions and restrictions which were a part of many a previous SLI ) That, combined with Prater's condescending leadership and you have a predictable outcome. You cannot expect rational behavior from the East because with the implementation of the Nic, they had nothing left to lose.

The notion that AWA saved USAir is in the eyes of the beholder. AWA did not have the money, nor the business to swallow the East by any means. The banks gave them the money to broker a deal because the combined entity was more viable than the two separate companies. AWA needed a deal to survive long term, and if it wasn't USAir, it would have been someone else. Look at Parker's MO. It has been his MO and continued to be his MO as he tried to merge with anyone who would have him, and this is true before the East and West merger and every day afterward up until the AMR transaction. The notion that the Nic is OK because the East was in BK and their pilots had no career expectations is an inane as telling the AMR pilots that they had no expectations as they were in BK too, so lets put the AWA pilots (and the East pilots) ahead of them too.

Have fun selling that to the AMR pilots.

A350

 

[waveflyer]

Well said Dan,
But 350-
Those are all arguments that are well and good, but you avoided my question. Usair had an apathetic pilot group who saw their own contract amended 93 times (LOA93, right?) without any movement to require a vote from the membership as a whole. That's an MEC issue. I can count several ALPA groups that require a vote if compensation changes at all or changes by a certain percentage. Back room deal after back room deal passed and your group did nothing.

Now to what you avoided. The usair group did nothing to change ALPA merger policy until america west bought them and you figured out that date of hire would benefit you. And benefit you big time.

The policy changed well before. Why the apathy? Certainly after united in 2000. After psa, piedmont, trump, etc- you couldn't believe that usair would never be in another M&A.

Why did it take so long to get active? And do you realize that all your DOH gold standard means next to nothing when you never cared until it benefitted you.

WHEN DO USAIR PILOTS GET TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR PREVIOUS APATHY?
Why the impotent attempt to change things AFTER the fact?

 

[St. Nic]

We took responsibility into our own hands and that's why we are Usapa!!!
Argue all you want the facts remain the Nic was a non starter and the west greed caused this mess. Plus a senile arbitraitor. You can place a 18 year never furloughed pilot next to a new hire. Ain't gonna work!!!!
Alpa wise up and changed the policy when they saw the mistake and abortion Nicolau caused the piloting profession. The east pilots did this to preserve the only thing we all bring to a merger: DATE OF HIRE!

 

[Jim]

we gave up our integrity and that's why we are usapa!!!

fify.

 

[waveflyer]

We took responsibility into our own hands and that's why we are Usapa!!!
Argue all you want the facts remain the Nic was a non starter and the west greed caused this mess. Plus a senile arbitraitor. You can place a 18 year never furloughed pilot next to a new hire. Ain't gonna work!!!!
Alpa wise up and changed the policy when they saw the mistake and abortion Nicolau caused the piloting profession. The east pilots did this to preserve the only thing we all bring to a merger: DATE OF HIRE!

Let me ask you something

When you finally hired, didn't you place a probation pilot 1 number junior to your 18 year never furloughed FO?

 

[St. Nic]

Let me ask you something

When you finally hired, didn't you place a probation pilot 1 number junior to your 18 year never furloughed FO?

Nic placed him senior to our guys

 

[St. Nic]

fify.

Gee playing games again eh? Play all you want but Usapa is your union and you can't change that. Oh thanks for supporting our legal fund to fight Army of Laryngitis

 

[Jim]

Gee playing games again eh? Play all you want but Usapa is your union and you can't change that. Oh thanks for supporting our legal fund to fight Army of Laryngitis

Since I'm a Hawaiian pilot, ALPA is my union.