Military to corporate advice

[AA717driver]

GV--One aspect of corporate aviation that had kept me away was the political side. I found out early that many corporate operations operate on a "kill or be killed" mentality. Either you screw your rivals out of a position or they will do it to you.

I still don't like the fact that you can't be honest with many people in some departments for fear of creating a political enemy. Fortunately, at my current company, there is little of the political maneuvering I described. But you never know when it will raise its ugly head...TC

 

[TCA]

Congrats to this thread!!



I have watched quite a few of the posts for some time now rolling in the “Oh my Gods!” to “dang that was funny.” Now I have at last seen a thread that answers the question and offers help. I hope that I can add a little to this. Here is my first post.



First, thank you for your service!!



I have enjoyed GVFLYER’s posts as they are thoughtful and accurate. I would give great weight to the contents of his posts. That is in this case except for one. Barden. I used Janice Barden many years ago in a job search and I was not impressed. I have been earning my “keep” in this industry for 28 years now and there is one thing that has held true for me. Every flying job that I have had came to me through my networking….everyday, all day! You are doing that now and getting great support from everyone….way to go Board!!



The aviation industry can be very cruel or very rewarding. In real estate it is location, location, location. In aviation it is timing, timing, timing!! The industry seems to be cyclical on a twenty year bias . I believe we are in another adjustment period in every facet on the industry.



I have a few question that you may want to ask yourself. My son-in-law is in the Corp. and is staying the 20 because he asked himself these questions. 1. Do you have the opportunity to stay or move branches? 2. What is the payoff. (retirement, benefits, security, dollars long term) in each job opportunity? 3. What are the effects of either choice a or b on my family?



Remember this, Aviation very much like a blind date and the lights may not come on until the door is closed!!



Hope the best for you and if you would like to talk directly please let me know.



Still Climbing

TCA

 

[Phrogboy]

GV and TCA,

Thanks again!! Excellent advice, and it looks like Double and I have our work cut out for us.

 

[sleepy]

I would say that you should target flight departments where the CP or Director is an ex-military pilot. When our company had an ex-navy pilot in charge, he liked to hire ex-navy pilots. Our current boss comes from a civilian background, and he has only hired pilots with a background similart to his.

I am not saying that this behavior is right or wrong, but people tend to favor people with similar backgrounds. I enjoy flying with all of our pilots. We have a good group of people that know how to get along together. I think this is the key to a good (large) corporate flight department.

 

[DoubleDayGo]

You guys have been awesome. It's nice to see a thread where everyone isn't
s#!tting all over each other for misspellings, misspeaks, or misplaced modifiers. I've probably learned as much from this one thread as I have from surfing threads for the past couple months. So thanks very much to all!

Of course, some more questions...

- Is fractional flying a preferred way to build some time and make some good corporate connections? If given the luxury to choose between a fractional or a small corporate gig (same pay), which would be a better career move?

- How often do manufacturers like G hire demo/test pilots, and how difficult are those jobs to get? Seems like those would be great jobs themselves, let alone be outstanding stepping stones to a large corporate flight department.

Phrogboy, thanks for jumping in! Good luck bro, and keep this thing going with the questions I'm not thinking of.

 

[bigD]

- Is fractional flying a preferred way to build some time and make some good corporate connections? If given the luxury to choose between a fractional or a small corporate gig (same pay), which would be a better career move?

From everything I hear about fractional pay - if you see a corporate gig that pays the same, it's not a place you'd want to work.

 

[501261]

Fractionals and or Charter

- Is fractional flying a preferred way to build some time and make some good corporate connections? If given the luxury to choose between a fractional or a small corporate gig (same pay), which would be a better career move?

Fractionals and/or charter is great experience for the “good” corporate job.

It’s the simple nature of it; you end up going to a lot of different airports, and build some great experience that way. In my job we end up at one of 8 airports about 80% of the time.

In addition, flying fractional or charter you’ll spend a lot of time at the best networking facility around, the pilot lounge at a busy corporate airport.

Plus, you build your customer service skills. You get to interact with a wide variety of people, most will be pleasant, but there will be days (hopefully you will never have to fly Steven Seagal).

Finally, don’t assume that the larger the flight department the bigger the pay. While this is generally true, some smaller departments might not want to deal with turnover and simply ensures that you stay put; whereas larger departments typically report to a CFO and have to keep their compensation within industry standards.

 

[2000flyer]

Something To Think About

Double and other former military...

A couple of other corporate options you may wish to consider. Look at companies that have a strong business in military contracts, ie Boeing, General Dynamics and such. From what I've seen in the past, they really go for guys with military experience, some specifically relishing over tactical experience.

A few years ago, then McDonnel Douglas, was flying a King Air used as a test bed for variants of the cruise missle. I chatted with the pilot for some time and he asked if I'd be interested in applying. Figuring I didn't meet their mins at the time I asked what they were. The only minimum experience they were looking for was 500 hour of "tactical" experience.

Another is General Dynamics. They've been advertising at the Needham, MA, location. My neighbor, a GD employee, talked with two of their pilots the other day and they mentioned the desire to hire pilots with a military background since many of the passengers hold high DoD clearances, thus someone with a military background might also have, or easily be able to get equal clearances. I know it sounds like an odd requirement for a pilot, but their out there.

Yet another option while waiting for that corporate "dream job" to come along; there is a company in Jacksonville FL that flies F16s training Danish pilots. Obviously, they require someone with a fighter background. I can't remember their name off the top of my head but an internet search should find you the info. I don't know if they're hiring but they were advertising in the last year. Also, you might consider Phoenix Air (I think thats their name now) out of the Atlanta area. They fly modified LR35s on DoD contracts, especially USN contracts on both coasts and, I believe, in Spain. Might hold you over while looking.

A newspaper style magazine called "Air Jobs Digest" usually has a large number of government positions, both ground and air, as well as corporate and airline info.

Just bouncing a few more ideas to assist during your search.

Good luck!

2000Flyer

 

[sleepy]

MY advise is that if you have to take a less well paying corporate gig to start, then that is really not such a bad thing. Most larger corporate flight departments want prior corporate experience (mine is a good example). If you have that, even if it is flying a King Air or Citation, then it counts.

Also, once you are a corporate pilots it makes the networking for the next job much easier. The NBAA, if your company is a member, offers a lot of resources to help with your job search, and the opportunity to attend meetings and join committies where you meet the right kind of people. As well, just sitting in a pilot lounge for a few hours talking to others in the profession allows you to hear rumors about who is hiring, read industry publications, and meet other pilots (who might just be the director or chief pilot of a large company). It is all about networking.

I advise you to search the web site of every Fortune 500 corporation. Most companies now post job openings (and allow you to appy) on their site. It is a long shot to get hired this way, but it has happened twice at my company.