zackiss1971
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Mil leave
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Yes, you can take a mil leave on probation.
Your seniority remains as if you had not taken military leave.
You can be furloughed, and you will be treated as if you were not on military leave (e.g. if you are in the bottom 50, and they furlough 100, then you will be furloughed, and your recall rights are such that you retain your seniority as if you were not on mil leave)
Your seniority remains as if you had not taken military leave.
You can be furloughed, and you will be treated as if you were not on military leave (e.g. if you are in the bottom 50, and they furlough 100, then you will be furloughed, and your recall rights are such that you retain your seniority as if you were not on mil leave)
zackiss1971
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slinky
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Mother Delta does do that. If your mil leave is longer than 30 days, it will tack that time to your probation.
SWA does this and rightly so.
millhouse21
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I agree. However, as far as I know, this issue has not yet been "pressed to test." It will take someone being fired, after their probation is extended for mil leave, to be the test case for this issue. The law is clear, however, and "probation" is a status.
Helos2Galaxy
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So jump on the bandwagon and sue us!
swa737-700
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Millhouse,
Don't cha' think it defeats the purpose of probation if you are not there to be observed? Everything else is "normal-normal" in regards to vacation, seniority ect. Get over having the probation period extended. We all made it through probation, you can to...and yes I am in the USAFR and use mil leave when needed.
United requires something like 160 days' work while on probation. I've known several guys that did a bunch of mil drops during their probationary year and got it extended.
Pay is based on your hire date (more correctly, completion of training date), so if you took a year of mil leave partway through your probation year, you'd get paid second year pay when you return.
Personally, I don't see extension of probationary year as a violation of USERRA. USERRA is designed to not penalize those that serve in the Guard/Reserve. Serving in probationary status long enough for your employer to observe your work is not what I'd call penalizing them. But I'm not a lawyer; I'm sure that if you got the right lawyer, you could be acquitted of murder - if the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit.
millhouse21
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Wow, I'm pretty sure I CAN make it off probation. In fact, I did make it off probation. I'm just wondering what your status would be "if you had never left?"
I am not saying that anyone should sue anyone. I am saying that all employers should abide by USERRA (federal law.)
It is a 2 way street, however, and members of the military should do their best to be fair to their employers.
The guy that shows up on day 1 of indoc, and drops 1 year active duty orders on the table, while legal, is not doing any favors for the next Mil guy that applies at that company.
I couldn't agree with you more.
Slye
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I'm on MLOA right now and will likely be furloughed soon. Is there any difference in benefits to being on MLOA when you're furloughed vs being an active pilot when you're furloughed? If on MLOA when furloughed, can you still collect unemployment if you return from MLOA during a furlough? Also, this may be contract dependant, but lets say your company doesn't let you accrue longevity during a furlough, will being on MLOA at the time of furlough affect building longevity differently? Thanks for the help, just trying to figure out the best way to weather the storm.
pkober
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I would say that a company cannot furlough you while on MLOA. Once your MLOA is complete they can the furlough you.
If you are on MLOA the company is required to contribute to your retirement upon completion of you MLOA.
I think trying to collect unemployement while on MLOA may be illegal if you make over a certain amount per month.
If on MLOA and not furloughed you should continue to accrue longevity.
I would take MLOA before being furloghed. Get on orders now before all the other furloughees.
If you are on MLOA the company is required to contribute to your retirement upon completion of you MLOA.
I think trying to collect unemployement while on MLOA may be illegal if you make over a certain amount per month.
If on MLOA and not furloughed you should continue to accrue longevity.
I would take MLOA before being furloghed. Get on orders now before all the other furloughees.
Last edited:
UALjan15
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In response to pkober:
I would say that a company cannot furlough you while on MLOA. Once your MLOA is complete they can the furlough you. You'd be wrong there. It happened to many of my friends during the last downturn.
If you are on MLOA the company is required to contribute to your retirement upon completion of you MLOA. Correct
I think trying to collect unemployement while on MLOA may be illegal if you make over a certain amount per month. Correct, although I think he was asking if he could collect unemployment once the orders were done. I honestly don't know, but my guess is yes, if it is within the normal time parameters from the furlough date. Contact your state's unemployment office for the detailed answer.
If on MLOA and not furloughed you should continue to accrue longevity. Correct
I would take MLOA before being furloghed. Get on orders now before all the other furloughees. One thing to consider is currency, if the mil job is non-flying. Every bit of currency counts if you are going to try to hit the job market as a pilot.
I would say that a company cannot furlough you while on MLOA. Once your MLOA is complete they can the furlough you. You'd be wrong there. It happened to many of my friends during the last downturn.
If you are on MLOA the company is required to contribute to your retirement upon completion of you MLOA. Correct
I think trying to collect unemployement while on MLOA may be illegal if you make over a certain amount per month. Correct, although I think he was asking if he could collect unemployment once the orders were done. I honestly don't know, but my guess is yes, if it is within the normal time parameters from the furlough date. Contact your state's unemployment office for the detailed answer.
If on MLOA and not furloughed you should continue to accrue longevity. Correct
I would take MLOA before being furloghed. Get on orders now before all the other furloughees. One thing to consider is currency, if the mil job is non-flying. Every bit of currency counts if you are going to try to hit the job market as a pilot.
millhouse21
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There is actually no thing as a "request" for mil leave. What you are required to do (by law) is notify the company of your status; i.e. mobilization orders, etc. It is encouraged that you give them as much notice as possible but the only hard requirement is that you actually notify them before you leave.
pkober
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I pushed to test that issue when furloughed from AA. I was scheduled to be furloughed on 2 Mar 03however I was involuntarily activated on 1 Mar 03 (divine intervention). I called the CPO and informed them that I could not be furloughed while involuntarily activated. They said I could and did indeed furlough me. I couldn't fight the issue any further because within a week I was in the Iraqi AOR.
But looking into it further you're right you can legally be furloughed while on MLOA.
http://www.esgr.org/userrafaq.asp?p=c
What rights does an employee have under USERRA if he or she is on layoff, on strike, or on a leave of absence?
If an employee is laid off with recall rights, on strike, or on a leave of absence, he or she is an employee for purposes of USERRA. If the employee is on layoff and begins service in the uniformed services, or is laid off while performing service, he or she may be entitled to reemployment on return if the employer would have recalled the employee to employment during the period of service. Similar principles apply if the employee is on strike or on a leave of absence from work when he or she begins a period of service in the uniformed services.
If the employee is sent a recall notice during a period of service in the uniformed services and cannot resume the position of employment because of the service, he or she still remains an employee for purposes of the Act. Therefore, if the employee is otherwise eligible, he or she is entitled to reemployment following the conclusion of the period of service even if he or she did not respond to the recall notice.
If the employee is laid off before or during service in the uniformed services, and the employer would not have recalled him or her during that period of service, the employee is not entitled to reemployment following the period of service simply because he or she is a covered employee. Reemployment rights under USERRA cannot put the employee in a better position than if he or she had remained in the civilian employment position. Reference: Sec. 1002.42.
But looking into it further you're right you can legally be furloughed while on MLOA.
http://www.esgr.org/userrafaq.asp?p=c
What rights does an employee have under USERRA if he or she is on layoff, on strike, or on a leave of absence?
If an employee is laid off with recall rights, on strike, or on a leave of absence, he or she is an employee for purposes of USERRA. If the employee is on layoff and begins service in the uniformed services, or is laid off while performing service, he or she may be entitled to reemployment on return if the employer would have recalled the employee to employment during the period of service. Similar principles apply if the employee is on strike or on a leave of absence from work when he or she begins a period of service in the uniformed services.
If the employee is sent a recall notice during a period of service in the uniformed services and cannot resume the position of employment because of the service, he or she still remains an employee for purposes of the Act. Therefore, if the employee is otherwise eligible, he or she is entitled to reemployment following the conclusion of the period of service even if he or she did not respond to the recall notice.
If the employee is laid off before or during service in the uniformed services, and the employer would not have recalled him or her during that period of service, the employee is not entitled to reemployment following the period of service simply because he or she is a covered employee. Reemployment rights under USERRA cannot put the employee in a better position than if he or she had remained in the civilian employment position. Reference: Sec. 1002.42.
Or get a job
PK,
It varies from State-to-State. I would do two drills and two AFTP's each month and still got my full four weeks of unemployment from NY State because it wasn't active duty. When I did an AT, I could only get two weeks of unemployment for the month because of the Active Duty clause in the law.
It varies from State-to-State. I would do two drills and two AFTP's each month and still got my full four weeks of unemployment from NY State because it wasn't active duty. When I did an AT, I could only get two weeks of unemployment for the month because of the Active Duty clause in the law.
mmase7
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Spoken like a true P-3 bubba...
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