Midwest Pilots

[airlinepilot]

Any Midwest guys and gals that have answers to the following questions:

1. How many of you were flying the line (not on furlough) when RUH took over

2. How many of you that were on the line are flying now?

3. How were your incorporated into the SL at RUH?

Just curious because I have heard various reports....

 

[Mike man]

What is RUH? If you are referring to Republic Airways Holdings please see below for acceptable abbreviations...

RPA
RJET
RAH
RP

 

[MCDU]

The R's all have to do with replacement. No airline has replaced more pilots then Republic. The windfall Republic pilots have gained the last few years come at the expense of many seasoned real jobs at real carriers. Repulic is a disgrace.

M

 

[climb2slow]

The R's all have to do with replacement. No airline has replaced more pilots then Republic. The windfall Republic pilots have gained the last few years come at the expense of many seasoned real jobs at real carriers. Repulic is a disgrace.

M

MCDOOSH..The republic pilots have nothing to do with who their company chooses to buy....I could easily become one of those 'seasoned' pilots to lose their jobs. But if that happens, it will not be because Republic pilots deliberately took it.

 

[eaglesview]

MCDOOSH..The republic pilots have nothing to do with who their company chooses to buy....I could easily become one of those 'seasoned' pilots to lose their jobs. But if that happens, it will not be because Republic pilots deliberately took it.

Sorry I have to agree with "mcdoosh." When is the last time you heard a republic pilot say anything about all the experienced pilots their company has put on the street. Have you heard even one say "maybe this isn't right" NO They think it's their right!

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Sorry I have to agree with "mcdoosh." When is the last time you heard a republic pilot say anything about all the experienced pilots their company has put on the street. Have you heard even one say "maybe this isn't right" NO They think it's their right!

No, what they are doing is being noticeably silent when it is good for them. We all do it. Somewhere it needs to stop.

 

[9rj9]

midwest missed their chance when they turned down Airtran.

 

[T2Bus]

The R's all have to do with replacement. No airline has replaced more pilots then Republic. The windfall Republic pilots have gained the last few years come at the expense of many seasoned real jobs at real carriers. Repulic is a disgrace.

M

Since you are a FLIGHT ATTENDANT, how do you know so much about all the airlines of the world and all their problems.

 

[Full of LUV]

Maybe....

midwest missed their chance when they turned down Airtran.

Maybe.... but they really missed their chance when the company announced that RAH would be taking half their flying in the near future, the WHOLE group should have said "over our striking body" and see if RAH was ready to step in and fly the whole schedule on day one. Instead, the senior guys facilitated an orderly transfer of flying from Midwest to RAH for what... an extra 6 months of salary. Sooooo short sighted......

 

[Captain Morgan]

Maybe.... but they really missed their chance when the company announced that RAH would be taking half their flying in the near future, the WHOLE group should have said "over our striking body" and see if RAH was ready to step in and fly the whole schedule on day one. Instead, the senior guys facilitated an orderly transfer of flying from Midwest to RAH for what... an extra 6 months of salary. Sooooo short sighted......

Here it is... RAH is prohibited to fly struck work by not only their own decency, but it's in our contract as well. If they struck we no worky... That didn't happen however.

 

[eaglesview]

Maybe.... but they really missed their chance when the company announced that RAH would be taking half their flying in the near future, the WHOLE group should have said "over our striking body" and see if RAH was ready to step in and fly the whole schedule on day one. Instead, the senior guys facilitated an orderly transfer of flying from Midwest to RAH for what... an extra 6 months of salary. Sooooo short sighted......

Although a nice idea there is this thing called the RLA. RAH pilots coninue there deafening silence.

 

[Full of LUV]

Rla....

Although a nice idea there is this thing called the RLA. RAH pilots coninue there deafening silence.

Last I heard there are no current prisoners in the US due to RLA violations. I'd say strike or "a mass not show up to work" and either the airline will go out of business, or it will negotiate fairly. RLA only really applies if you have jobs to return to.
Instead, the senior pilots just kept showing up while the junior half was furloughed and when it finally made it to them, they said, wait, you promised........
I'm no RAH fan, but they are right if it was struck work, they'd have more of a chance of rejecting it, but instead, it was not, and they were there right along with the senior MW pilots.
When the company is playing hardball with gernades, you can't show up to the game with a nerf bat and cry foul when the thing explodes in your face.
RLA applies to people negotiating in good faith, there is no LAW requiring people to work for a company at any pay or treatment level, now I agree it takes some cajones to walk away from a cushy capt position in your hometown 717 airline, but sometimes it takes a little longer view than 6 months to see that what the company just did to your bottom half of the seniority list is just the beginning.
Luv!

 

[eaglesview]

Last I heard there are no current prisoners in the US due to RLA violations. I'd say strike or "a mass not show up to work" and either the airline will go out of business, or it will negotiate fairly. RLA only really applies if you have jobs to return to.
Instead, the senior pilots just kept showing up while the junior half was furloughed and when it finally made it to them, they said, wait, you promised........
I'm no RAH fan, but they are right if it was struck work, they'd have more of a chance of rejecting it, but instead, it was not, and they were there right along with the senior MW pilots.
When the company is playing hardball with gernades, you can't show up to the game with a nerf bat and cry foul when the thing explodes in your face.
RLA applies to people negotiating in good faith, there is no LAW requiring people to work for a company at any pay or treatment level, now I agree it takes some cajones to walk away from a cushy capt position in your hometown 717 airline, but sometimes it takes a little longer view than 6 months to see that what the company just did to your bottom half of the seniority list is just the beginning.
Luv!

You make some good points. Obviously it easy to armchair quarterback after the fact. Unfortunatley the silence coming from the ranks at RAH speaks volumes. I do not believe they would honor a "picket line" and not fly "their (Midwest) flying." In 1989 when I was on strike at EAL, Continental was flying from east coast cities (like PHL ect) to ATL. They never "crossed a picket line" to do it.

An RAH pilot that showed up to work, and in his schedule was MKE to "XYZ" they would fly it.

 

[Raoul Duke]

so can someone actually answer the original question?

 

[Scope out RJ's]

The R's all have to do with replacement. No airline has replaced more pilots then Republic. The windfall Republic pilots have gained the last few years come at the expense of many seasoned real jobs at real carriers. Repulic is a disgrace.

M

.........................Says the Gulfstream International Academy washout!

 

[Full of LUV]

All true....

You make some good points. Obviously it easy to armchair quarterback after the fact. Unfortunatley the silence coming from the ranks at RAH speaks volumes. I do not believe they would honor a "picket line" and not fly "their (Midwest) flying." In 1989 when I was on strike at EAL, Continental was flying from east coast cities (like PHL ect) to ATL. They never "crossed a picket line" to do it.

An RAH pilot that showed up to work, and in his schedule was MKE to "XYZ" they would fly it.

You to make some valid observations... I have know way of knowing if RAH would have flown the exact same routes as Midwest or not and I suppose it's a "mute" point at this juncture. But I do think it would have been a lot harder to transition the whole kit-and-kaboodle if MW pilots would have threatened to walk out 7 days after the initial announcement had the company not really negotiated something.
I guess some would say the company did want to negotiate, and that was for the flying to be done at RAH rates, and then people have to decide if that is what they are willing to do. Unfortunately, the company seemed to enjoy the best of both worlds as senior pilots hung on and flew to the "last day" at their rates and facilitated the transfer over to RAH rather than accept RAH rates themselves.
Who knows, I've never personally been in that situation and hope not to, and I'm sure it is very tough to leave the comfy captains seat in your hometown once you've obtained that, but all was lost eventually anyway. Ironically, the RAH pilots would say they enjoy the growth because it gives them more PIC time so they can someday get that coveted Capt position at a major airline in their hometown.

 

[airlinepilot]

Ok, so what is the real answer to the original question.

 

[deadstick]

Sorry for the tangent, but I have a question.

I happened to see some MEP1XXX flights on flightaware. I assume this is the new one (Midwest Express Partners), but the 1XXX flights use to be the Skyway 1900 runs. Another thing that caught my eye was that there were no aircraft type assigned to the flight plan.There are a ton of these in the scheduled sections. I go digging a little more and they are the Chautauqua E135 flights (old ExpressJet planes, right?).

So with these being listed as MEP flights, are they adding the E135 to the Midwest (YX) certificate?

 

[FlyWolf]

Any Midwest guys and gals that have answers to the following questions:

1. How many of you were flying the line (not on furlough) when RUH took over

2. How many of you that were on the line are flying now?

3. How were your incorporated into the SL at RUH?

Just curious because I have heard various reports....

Just an approximate numbers:

1- 128
2- 87, will be 0 by year end after all the remaining B717 are sent to Click (Mexican airline).
3- Still working on it, no integration as of yet.

EDIT: the top numbers are true as of the date Republic closed the deal on Midwest only, the number of the pilots on Midwest seniority list was 400 and another 200 or so Skyway pilots.

 

[Jabwmu]

Sorry for the tangent, but I have a question.

I happened to see some MEP1XXX flights on flightaware. I assume this is the new one (Midwest Express Partners), but the 1XXX flights use to be the Skyway 1900 runs. Another thing that caught my eye was that there were no aircraft type assigned to the flight plan.There are a ton of these in the scheduled sections. I go digging a little more and they are the Chautauqua E135 flights (old ExpressJet planes, right?).

So with these being listed as MEP flights, are they adding the E135 to the Midwest (YX) certificate?

I can't help you with the flight numbers question, but the E135's are Chautauqua's parked Delta painted planes. These planes are on the Chautauqua certificate.

 

[airlinepilot]

Just an approximate numbers:

1- 128
2- 87, will be 0 by year end after all the remaining B717 are sent to Click (Mexican airline).
3- Still working on it, no integration as of yet.

EDIT: the top numbers are true as of the date Republic closed the deal on Midwest only, the number of the pilots on Midwest seniority list was 400 and another 200 or so Skyway pilots.

So what plans does RAH have for the pilots. How long has it been since they took over Midwest. Sounds to me like the pilot group needs a good lawyer. Maybe time to test the AM law. I would assume the Midwest Guys and gals would have to get the same deal they give F9 or anyone else???

 

[king10pin02]

So what plans does RAH have for the pilots. How long has it been since they took over Midwest. Sounds to me like the pilot group needs a good lawyer. Maybe time to test the AM law. I would assume the Midwest Guys and gals would have to get the same deal they give F9 or anyone else???[/QUOTE

ibt is waiting for f9 deal to close so they can intergrate all 5(rah-mok-lynx-yx-f9) lists all at the same time, not have 5 seperate arbitrations

 

[Minimaniac]

So what plans does RAH have for the pilots. How long has it been since they took over Midwest. Sounds to me like the pilot group needs a good lawyer. Maybe time to test the AM law. I would assume the Midwest Guys and gals would have to get the same deal they give F9 or anyone else???

Seniority list integrations take months. It has hardly been one month so far. And no, Midwest pilots will not necessarily get the same deal as Frontier pilots. Each list can be integrated according to completely separate criteria with very different outcomes. There is no law that dictates consistent integration methods for mergers. That is why you see so much arguing about what is right... if the law demanded consistent outcomes, there would be no need to speculate, negotiate, mediate, and arbitrate. A/M only requires fair and equitable integration, and basically only takes away stapling as an option, though is some cases even stapling could be fair (though not in this case).

 

[deadstick]

I can't help you with the flight numbers question, but the E135's are Chautauqua's parked Delta painted planes. These planes are on the Chautauqua certificate.

This is why I thought they got some from Expressjet/CAL...

08/22/2009 Chautauqua EMB-135LR N11526 145410 LF Continental 7/14/09
08/22/2009 Chautauqua EMB-135LR N15527 145413 LF Continental 7/14/09
08/22/2009 Chautauqua EMB-135LR N12528 145504 LF Continental 7/14/09
08/22/2009 Chautauqua EMB-135LR N28529 145512 LF Continental 7/14/09
08/22/2009 Chautauqua EMB-135LR N12530 145533 LF Continental 7/14/09

08/22/2009 ExpressJet EMB-135LR N11526 145410 RT Continental
08/22/2009 ExpressJet EMB-135LR N15527 145413 RT Continental
08/22/2009 ExpressJet EMB-135LR N12528 145504 RT Continental
08/22/2009 ExpressJet EMB-135LR N28529 145512 RT Continental
08/22/2009 ExpressJet EMB-135LR N12530 145533 RT Continental

 

[Minimaniac]

This is why I thought they got some from Expressjet/CAL...

08/22/2009 Chautauqua EMB-135LR N11526 145410 LF Continental 7/14/09
08/22/2009 Chautauqua EMB-135LR N15527 145413 LF Continental 7/14/09
08/22/2009 Chautauqua EMB-135LR N12528 145504 LF Continental 7/14/09
08/22/2009 Chautauqua EMB-135LR N28529 145512 LF Continental 7/14/09
08/22/2009 Chautauqua EMB-135LR N12530 145533 LF Continental 7/14/09

08/22/2009 ExpressJet EMB-135LR N11526 145410 RT Continental
08/22/2009 ExpressJet EMB-135LR N15527 145413 RT Continental
08/22/2009 ExpressJet EMB-135LR N12528 145504 RT Continental
08/22/2009 ExpressJet EMB-135LR N28529 145512 RT Continental
08/22/2009 ExpressJet EMB-135LR N12530 145533 RT Continental

There are former ExpressJet planes flying in Midwest colors. There are also some former Delta Connection (RAH owned) 135's doing the Midwest flying.

 

[ultrarunner]

Seniority list integrations take months. ...

Or years if the two parties agree to binding-arbitration, and then one side doesn't like the decision.

You should catch up on your reading of the USAir/America West abortion.

F9 is a a different deal than MEH, since RAH is only acquiring the flying that MidEx is giving up by virtue of returning aircraft back to the lessor. I really don't see that RAH is acquiring any pilots at all in the MEH deal. But in any event, is somewhere down the road someone sees fit to make a legal determination that x number of MEH pilots have the "right" to be integrated, I would think by the time that happens, the majority of those folks will have moved on to something else.

time will tell....

 

[CitationLover]

Or years if the two parties agree to binding-arbitration, and then one side doesn't like the decision.

You should catch up on your reading of the USAir/America West abortion.

F9 is a a different deal than MEH, since RAH is only acquiring the flying that MidEx is giving up by virtue of returning aircraft back to the lessor. I really don't see that RAH is acquiring any pilots at all in the MEH deal. But in any event, is somewhere down the road someone sees fit to make a legal determination that x number of MEH pilots have the "right" to be integrated, I would think by the time that happens, the majority of those folks will have moved on to something else.

time will tell....

Midwest management was already doing what Bedford wanted BEFORE the public announced merger. Why were the rates Hoeksema demanded the EXACT same as Republics (1 year before the fact)? He gave those airplanes back because Bedford didn't want them, since they have established rates, etc. Why not shove a "regional" jet with lower prices down the throats.

RAH is FULLY responsible for the departure of the 717 at Midwest, do not kid yourself.

 

[airlinepilot]

If I were an F9 pilot I would be looking to support the Midwest guys and gals....or YOUR NEXT. Be care what your wish your ....you just might get it

 

[climb2slow]

If I were an F9 pilot I would be looking to support the Midwest guys and gals....or YOUR NEXT. Be care what your wish your ....you just might get it

everyone is a F#$%^n expert.

 

[CitationLover]

everyone is a F#$%^n expert.

so what is it? you support:

a) the complete separation of F9 but completely abrogates the RAH pilots contract.
b) RAH which completely abrogates the MEH pilots contract with every 190 that says Midwest on it.