Midwest Pilots

[airlinepilot]

Just an approximate numbers:

1- 128
2- 87, will be 0 by year end after all the remaining B717 are sent to Click (Mexican airline).
3- Still working on it, no integration as of yet.

EDIT: the top numbers are true as of the date Republic closed the deal on Midwest only, the number of the pilots on Midwest seniority list was 400 and another 200 or so Skyway pilots.

So what plans does RAH have for the pilots. How long has it been since they took over Midwest. Sounds to me like the pilot group needs a good lawyer. Maybe time to test the AM law. I would assume the Midwest Guys and gals would have to get the same deal they give F9 or anyone else???

 

[king10pin02]

So what plans does RAH have for the pilots. How long has it been since they took over Midwest. Sounds to me like the pilot group needs a good lawyer. Maybe time to test the AM law. I would assume the Midwest Guys and gals would have to get the same deal they give F9 or anyone else???[/QUOTE

ibt is waiting for f9 deal to close so they can intergrate all 5(rah-mok-lynx-yx-f9) lists all at the same time, not have 5 seperate arbitrations

 

[Minimaniac]

So what plans does RAH have for the pilots. How long has it been since they took over Midwest. Sounds to me like the pilot group needs a good lawyer. Maybe time to test the AM law. I would assume the Midwest Guys and gals would have to get the same deal they give F9 or anyone else???

Seniority list integrations take months. It has hardly been one month so far. And no, Midwest pilots will not necessarily get the same deal as Frontier pilots. Each list can be integrated according to completely separate criteria with very different outcomes. There is no law that dictates consistent integration methods for mergers. That is why you see so much arguing about what is right... if the law demanded consistent outcomes, there would be no need to speculate, negotiate, mediate, and arbitrate. A/M only requires fair and equitable integration, and basically only takes away stapling as an option, though is some cases even stapling could be fair (though not in this case).

 

[deadstick]

I can't help you with the flight numbers question, but the E135's are Chautauqua's parked Delta painted planes. These planes are on the Chautauqua certificate.

This is why I thought they got some from Expressjet/CAL...

08/22/2009 Chautauqua EMB-135LR N11526 145410 LF Continental 7/14/09
08/22/2009 Chautauqua EMB-135LR N15527 145413 LF Continental 7/14/09
08/22/2009 Chautauqua EMB-135LR N12528 145504 LF Continental 7/14/09
08/22/2009 Chautauqua EMB-135LR N28529 145512 LF Continental 7/14/09
08/22/2009 Chautauqua EMB-135LR N12530 145533 LF Continental 7/14/09

08/22/2009 ExpressJet EMB-135LR N11526 145410 RT Continental
08/22/2009 ExpressJet EMB-135LR N15527 145413 RT Continental
08/22/2009 ExpressJet EMB-135LR N12528 145504 RT Continental
08/22/2009 ExpressJet EMB-135LR N28529 145512 RT Continental
08/22/2009 ExpressJet EMB-135LR N12530 145533 RT Continental

 

[Minimaniac]

This is why I thought they got some from Expressjet/CAL...

08/22/2009 Chautauqua EMB-135LR N11526 145410 LF Continental 7/14/09
08/22/2009 Chautauqua EMB-135LR N15527 145413 LF Continental 7/14/09
08/22/2009 Chautauqua EMB-135LR N12528 145504 LF Continental 7/14/09
08/22/2009 Chautauqua EMB-135LR N28529 145512 LF Continental 7/14/09
08/22/2009 Chautauqua EMB-135LR N12530 145533 LF Continental 7/14/09

08/22/2009 ExpressJet EMB-135LR N11526 145410 RT Continental
08/22/2009 ExpressJet EMB-135LR N15527 145413 RT Continental
08/22/2009 ExpressJet EMB-135LR N12528 145504 RT Continental
08/22/2009 ExpressJet EMB-135LR N28529 145512 RT Continental
08/22/2009 ExpressJet EMB-135LR N12530 145533 RT Continental

There are former ExpressJet planes flying in Midwest colors. There are also some former Delta Connection (RAH owned) 135's doing the Midwest flying.

 

[ultrarunner]

Seniority list integrations take months. ...

Or years if the two parties agree to binding-arbitration, and then one side doesn't like the decision.

You should catch up on your reading of the USAir/America West abortion.

F9 is a a different deal than MEH, since RAH is only acquiring the flying that MidEx is giving up by virtue of returning aircraft back to the lessor. I really don't see that RAH is acquiring any pilots at all in the MEH deal. But in any event, is somewhere down the road someone sees fit to make a legal determination that x number of MEH pilots have the "right" to be integrated, I would think by the time that happens, the majority of those folks will have moved on to something else.

time will tell....

 

[CitationLover]

Or years if the two parties agree to binding-arbitration, and then one side doesn't like the decision.

You should catch up on your reading of the USAir/America West abortion.

F9 is a a different deal than MEH, since RAH is only acquiring the flying that MidEx is giving up by virtue of returning aircraft back to the lessor. I really don't see that RAH is acquiring any pilots at all in the MEH deal. But in any event, is somewhere down the road someone sees fit to make a legal determination that x number of MEH pilots have the "right" to be integrated, I would think by the time that happens, the majority of those folks will have moved on to something else.

time will tell....

Midwest management was already doing what Bedford wanted BEFORE the public announced merger. Why were the rates Hoeksema demanded the EXACT same as Republics (1 year before the fact)? He gave those airplanes back because Bedford didn't want them, since they have established rates, etc. Why not shove a "regional" jet with lower prices down the throats.

RAH is FULLY responsible for the departure of the 717 at Midwest, do not kid yourself.

 

[airlinepilot]

If I were an F9 pilot I would be looking to support the Midwest guys and gals....or YOUR NEXT. Be care what your wish your ....you just might get it

 

[climb2slow]

If I were an F9 pilot I would be looking to support the Midwest guys and gals....or YOUR NEXT. Be care what your wish your ....you just might get it

everyone is a F#$%^n expert.

 

[CitationLover]

everyone is a F#$%^n expert.

so what is it? you support:

a) the complete separation of F9 but completely abrogates the RAH pilots contract.
b) RAH which completely abrogates the MEH pilots contract with every 190 that says Midwest on it.

 

[climb2slow]

so what is it? you support:

a) the complete separation of F9 but completely abrogates the RAH pilots contract.
b) RAH which completely abrogates the MEH pilots contract with every 190 that says Midwest on it.

I have been vocal that I think our negotiating team needs to get everything we can included for the Midwest crews. What we have been told however is that there is not any leverage there to be had. I would like to see something that provides for one list. But with protections in place that all pilots in the new list will fly equipment comparable to their equipment at the time of purchase. This keeps career expectations intact for all groups, and allows for any 'large' aircraft growth to go to the MEH and FP groups, and any 'small' aircraft growth to go to the RAH groups.

 

[ultrarunner]

Republic taking delivery of E190's. Which seats as many if not more than the 717 that it's replacing at MidEx. I don't see where a MidEx pilot would be awarded any "large plane growth". But I really do think that particular group is going to get left behind.

 

[airlinepilot]

Sounds like someone needs to get some lawyers and test Alleghany-Mohawk ....something about Fair treatment

 

[Minimaniac]

Sounds like someone needs to get some lawyers and test Alleghany-Mohawk ....something about Fair treatment

Allegheny-Mohawk deals with fair and equitable INTEGRATION, not treatment. Until there is an integration, each side will be contentious towards each other. And since A-M does not really quantify fair and equitable, no lawyer can really argue with an arbitrators decision, unless it is a complete staple.

 

[airplane wizard]

This is why I thought they got some from Expressjet/CAL...

08/22/2009 Chautauqua EMB-135LR N11526 145410 LF Continental 7/14/09
08/22/2009 Chautauqua EMB-135LR N15527 145413 LF Continental 7/14/09
08/22/2009 Chautauqua EMB-135LR N12528 145504 LF Continental 7/14/09
08/22/2009 Chautauqua EMB-135LR N28529 145512 LF Continental 7/14/09
08/22/2009 Chautauqua EMB-135LR N12530 145533 LF Continental 7/14/09

08/22/2009 ExpressJet EMB-135LR N11526 145410 RT Continental
08/22/2009 ExpressJet EMB-135LR N15527 145413 RT Continental
08/22/2009 ExpressJet EMB-135LR N12528 145504 RT Continental
08/22/2009 ExpressJet EMB-135LR N28529 145512 RT Continental
08/22/2009 ExpressJet EMB-135LR N12530 145533 RT Continental

So going from a 32 seat 328 to a 35 seat Embraer is supposed to be the answer to their troubles????

 

[Axel]

...RAH pilots coninue there deafening silence.

What would be the point of speaking up? Heels are dug in, opinions are formed nobody is going to change their minds and nobody can convince anyone to do so. So what would be the point? To try to argue reasonably?

On FI?

Sure. :laugh:

And if you listened carefully, you might could just barely pick up the sound of a RAH pilot; but for the most part all anyone can really hear is a sea of noise.

 

[deadstick]

So going from a 32 seat 328 to a 35 seat Embraer is supposed to be the answer to their troubles????

Going to 50 seats and BACK to 35 seats...

"We have the same operating cost on the CRJ as with the 328 and can fill more seats."
-- Former Top Tool at Skyway January 16, 2008

 

[B727FA]

Since you are a FLIGHT ATTENDANT, how do you know so much about all the airlines of the world and all their problems.

Um, since your an a$$ clown what would you know about all the airlines of the world and all their problems? Oh, that's right...you're a pilot; who lives to post on FlightInfo. Silly me.

 

[B727FA]

I have know way of knowing if RAH would have flown the exact same routes as Midwest or not and I suppose it's a "mute" point at this juncture.

Unfortunately, the company seemed to enjoy the best of both worlds as senior pilots hung on and flew to the "last day" at their rates and facilitated the transfer over to RAH rather than accept RAH rates themselves.

The famous "Full Pay to the Last Day!"

And, Full of LUV, please forgive me. I'm not trying to poke fun at your malaprops but it kills me that pilots have a really bad habit of putting FA's down (see post from T2Bus) for being stupid and wanting a career in flying--and then I see that kind of stuff all over the board.

I'm not one to jump on typos...but damn, wrong word choices are pretty freakin' funny from pilot know-it-alls!

 

[B727FA]

So going from a 32 seat 328 to a 35 seat Embraer is supposed to be the answer to their troubles????

They didn't do either. The DJet was 32 seats, the CRJ for OO was 50 and the 135 for CQ is 37. Now, what was your question?