Midwest/Frontier/RAH integration information

[Axel]

OK yer 'toopid.

Actually you sound like one of the few sane ones.

 

[starchkr]

So Trogdor if you're a furloughed E190 driver you raised the bar on the industry by working for US for 41 an hour, right? And all you F9 drivers screaming about wet-nosed kids are conveniently ignoring how you all flew E120s and SF-340s for 13K per year and/or PFT'd in the nineties... but it was ok then, right?

--deleted-- not worth it with the crowd in this thread..

 

[IslandDriver]

So I heard that the Republic Bid was outbid by WN any truth to that?

 

[Cardinal]

No.


And another "No" to get to the minimum message length.

 

[Indy319FA]

So I heard that the Republic Bid was outbid by WN any truth to that?

No, but this might throw a wrench into the works:





Frontier's union victory overturned.


The Denver Post
Posted: 07/22/2009 01:00:00 AM MDT





A federal district judge overturned a bankruptcy court decision allowing Frontier Airlines Inc. to reject a contract with unionized machinists represented by the International Brotherhood of Teamsters.
U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Robert Drain in New York ruled Oct. 31 that Denver-based Frontier could reject the contract as part of its restructuring in Chapter 11, after the company changed its proposal to make outsourcing aircraft maintenance less likely. On Monday, U.S. District Judge P. Kevin Castel overturned that ruling, saying the discount carrier shouldn't have made changes to its proposal to the union for new contract terms after seeking to reject the contract. He sent the case back to the bankruptcy court.

 

[CitationLover]

No, but this might throw a wrench into the works:





Frontier's union victory overturned.


The Denver Post
Posted: 07/22/2009 01:00:00 AM MDT





A federal district judge overturned a bankruptcy court decision allowing Frontier Airlines Inc. to reject a contract with unionized machinists represented by the International Brotherhood of Teamsters.
U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Robert Drain in New York ruled Oct. 31 that Denver-based Frontier could reject the contract as part of its restructuring in Chapter 11, after the company changed its proposal to make outsourcing aircraft maintenance less likely. On Monday, U.S. District Judge P. Kevin Castel overturned that ruling, saying the discount carrier shouldn't have made changes to its proposal to the union for new contract terms after seeking to reject the contract. He sent the case back to the bankruptcy court.

I love your laissez faire attitude towards an organized group winning what is contractually theirs versus management. If Bedford yells, "Jump!", do you go, "How high?"

 

[Indy319FA]

I don't have a laissez fair attitude, I have a realistic attitude. Ever hear of a pyrrhic victory? I've been around long enough that I don't drink management kool aid, nor do I drink union kool aid. Personally, I don't trust either one of them because they will both look out for themselves in the end. If Bedford says jump I check to see if its in the contract, and if not I ask him how much extra he's going to pay me to do it. I could care less about Bedford, Republic, or his kool aid. I come to work on time, do my job per company policy, take care of my passengers, and follow the contract, then I go home and forget about it. I do this for a certain amount of compensation in my contract. Doesn't matter to me who runs the show be it Bedford or whoever. My enthusiasm for this industry died long ago. Its a paycheck and nothing else.

The fact remains that if this "victory" causes operational costs to rise to a point that Republic decides to pull out and Frontier cannot find another equity investor, they will liquidate and this "victory" will be short lived.

The fact is the economy is pretty crappy right now, and any job looks pretty good when you have to put food on the table and care for your family.

 

[Cardinal]

Ever hear of a pyrrhic victory?

So Bedford is going to scuttle the Deal of the Decade over a $1.75/hr raise for a handful of Denver mechanics? I highly doubt it.

 

[Indy319FA]

So Bedford is going to scuttle the Deal of the Decade over a $1.75/hr raise for a handful of Denver mechanics? I highly doubt it.

Way I heard it will cost a lot more. We'll see what happens on the 11th.

 

[CitationLover]

I don't have a laissez fair attitude, I have a realistic attitude. Ever hear of a pyrrhic victory? I've been around long enough that I don't drink management kool aid, nor do I drink union kool aid. Personally, I don't trust either one of them because they will both look out for themselves in the end. If Bedford says jump I check to see if its in the contract, and if not I ask him how much extra he's going to pay me to do it. I could care less about Bedford, Republic, or his kool aid. I come to work on time, do my job per company policy, take care of my passengers, and follow the contract, then I go home and forget about it. I do this for a certain amount of compensation in my contract. Doesn't matter to me who runs the show be it Bedford or whoever. My enthusiasm for this industry died long ago. Its a paycheck and nothing else.

The fact remains that if this "victory" causes operational costs to rise to a point that Republic decides to pull out and Frontier cannot find another equity investor, they will liquidate and this "victory" will be short lived.

The fact is the economy is pretty crappy right now, and any job looks pretty good when you have to put food on the table and care for your family.

Victory? I never mentioned that. I simply mentioned that they won the right TO WHAT MANAGEMENT HAD AGREED TO in the first place. Management ALWAYS wants its cake and to eat it at the same time, this is the problem with the American Business Model in the early 21st century: take, take, take, take.

A contract is an enforceable deal. Ray Liotta in Goodfellas said it best:

"Got a problem with your wife? F@#$ you, pay me!......"

 

[StaySeated]

Way I heard it will cost a lot more. We'll see what happens on the 11th.

The 2nd District will put an end to the appeal. F9 will either get an injunction or they will file another 1113, this time (e), and they will still prevail.

 

[flying zephyr]

Don't be so sure of yourself, new administration, new law, new influence in the federal courts. How many people would've ever thought that GM employees would have a higher position than secured creditors. I am not sure the specifics of this case, but for better or worse it seems to be a new day for unions with this administration.

I am willing to bet that there will be political weight thrown around to protect jobs. If this $10+/hr minimum wage goes through then congress is already doing the unions job for it. I'll say again, I'm not sure it's right, but that is the way things are now.

 

[maxblast72]

I have a lot of buds at MEH. I was wondering why the MEH UNION didnt take action towards the furloughs and job losses. WHy not strike, SOS or raise Hell?

CYA

Do you really think Midwest is returning the 25 Boeing 717s to Boeing because they were making money with the airplanes? The only result of SOS would be to shut the down the 717 operation quicker.

The senior Midwest guys are going to take their $15K a month as they start looking for another job. It would be pretty tough in this environment to find an equivalent paying job right now. I am sure they are finally figuring it out that Timmy had no long term plan, but they really don't have many good options now. Might as well take the money til the end.

 

[flylike44]

Do you really think Midwest is returning the 25 Boeing 717s to Boeing because they were making money with the airplanes? The only result of SOS would be to shut the down the 717 operation quicker.

The senior Midwest guys are going to take their $15K a month as they start looking for another job. It would be pretty tough in this environment to find an equivalent paying job right now. I am sure they are finally figuring it out that Timmy had no long term plan, but they really don't have many good options now. Might as well take the money til the end.

might as well...but while they're doing that the mantra that RAH pilots should walk off the job in a show of "brotherhood" needs to be put to bed. you midwest guys are the big bad mainline pilots right? then show the young, hair jelled, ipod toting "pukes" at RAH how it's done. oh, that's not going to happen? thought so.

 

[CitationLover]

might as well...but while they're doing that the mantra that RAH pilots should walk off the job in a show of "brotherhood" needs to be put to bed. you midwest guys are the big bad mainline pilots right? then show the young, hair jelled, ipod toting "pukes" at RAH how it's done. oh, that's not going to happen? thought so.

No, our current active pilots use the same pathetic excuse yours does. The difference is, we walk off, and you will gain from it (one sided). You walk off and the entire profession would have benefitted.

We shall see what Bedford does. Does he have the brazenness to put those 2 190's on the Midwest certificate and fly it without "connect" on the side, a clear contract violation of the current Midwest CBA? Or does he slap connect on the side and allow his RAH henchman to continue doing his dirty work for him. I'll find out on 8/1.

 

[flylike44]

No, our current active pilots use the same pathetic excuse yours does. The difference is, we walk off, and you will gain from it (one sided). You walk off and the entire profession would have benefitted.

We shall see what Bedford does. Does he have the brazenness to put those 2 190's on the Midwest certificate and fly it without "connect" on the side, a clear contract violation of the current Midwest CBA? Or does he slap connect on the side and allow his RAH henchman to continue doing his dirty work for him. I'll find out on 8/1.

speaking of excuses...you have one for everything.

 

[aewanabe]

PFT'd in the Nineties? PH*CK you, never happened.....this is gonna be fun. Pimply-faced wannabe's, blonde-highlighted spikey hair,at least ONE pair of baggy pant in the closet, that use the word "DUDE" too much. This industry is at a new low......

Ok,then your profile aircraft indicate you probably worked at Mesa. Nice job raising the bar there chief. And your E190 partner in crime forgot to mention that US's second year pay on the E190 is 44 per hour, and 25 an hour for first year pay on any fleet other than the 190.

Point is I don't care where anybody started before F9, but you all paid your dues somehow and now want to scream and yell like adolescents at guys and gals doing the EXACT SAME THING you did. And before you freight dogs get your panties in a wad, guess what? A lot of the guys/gals at RAH flew checks and lab samples prior to working there... but don't let facts get in the way of a good rant.

 

[ChinaClipper]

Listen up Sparky......

I was fired for taking pictures of the Freedumb A's, threatened BY YV PERSONALLY NUMEROUS times for fighting those b@$tards, escorted from the 2002 ALPA Road show in CLT for the POS contract AH and Co. were trying to shove down our throats, I had Private Investigators trying to out me on the Yahoo! Mesa Boards for fighting back, You know JACK about me and "The Good Fight" against the flushing of this industry. I PUT MY JOB ON THE LINE NUMEROUS TIMES!!! And what, pray tell, did you do to "elevate" the profession? BTW This is my FIFTH UNION and FOURTH Airline. Signed, Pro Standards, System Board, Shop Steward, P2P Rep. Any other questions.....DUDE??????????

 

[CitationLover]

speaking of excuses...you have one for everything.

What excuse are you talking of? Our active pilots use the same weak arguments you use. The difference here is you don't have the guts to admit the same.

 

[aewanabe]

Pot, meet Kettle. And who's saying Dude?

I was fired for taking pictures of the Freedumb A's, threatened BY YV PERSONALLY NUMEROUS times for fighting those b@$tards, escorted from the 2002 ALPA Road show in CLT for the POS contract AH and Co. were trying to shove down our throats, I had Private Investigators trying to out me on the Yahoo! Mesa Boards for fighting back, You know JACK about me and "The Good Fight" against the flushing of this industry. I PUT MY JOB ON THE LINE NUMEROUS TIMES!!! And what, pray tell, did you do to "elevate" the profession? BTW This is my FIFTH UNION and FOURTH Airline. Signed, Pro Standards, System Board, Shop Steward, P2P Rep. Any other questions.....DUDE??????????

Good job for what you did. I only worked Pro Stans, J/S Committee and organizing for the failed JBPA drive. I've made it clear I'm not at all thrilled about the moves Bedford's made, especially being a B6 190 driver fighting for a pay raise.

I'm just sick of all you guys who took the same route to get where you are screaming about pimply-faced kids and the like. These "kids" didn't ask BB to buy your company, and they've been in section 6 trying to improve upon contract -03 for 2 years now. Some of them are more experienced and have paid more dues than both of us combined. When you flew E145s and CL65s at YV you damned sure were flying former mainline routes and replacing jobs that used to be flown with F28s, DC9s, and the like; but it's not like YOU chose that outcome personally. This crappy industry chose it for you. Same crap's happening now, and it still sucks ass. Yell at your management and Bedford, and try to help these "kids" with a better contract and mainline style working conditions. Or yell like a pissed-off kid and beat your fists against the wall. Whatever.