Midwest Air Warns On Profit, Cites Weak Fares

[CitationLover]

Citation... It may not have ramped up yet but when MEH is missing thier own earnings estimates that don't even take into account the things your talking about, its no wonder the shareholders voted the way they did.... 2 quarters in a row MEH has missed their estimates, how long are shareholders supposed to wait until Timmey can realize hes ridding a sinking ship?? BTW...Its funny you are calling AAI's TA a "crappy" TA... You better hope AAI buys MEH.. Even with the "crappy" TA MEH's 15 year capt pay would increase by around $37 per hour... AAI's current contract is much, much better than MEH's contract.... Hell, you should be happy as a MEH new hire that AAI's is probably gonna purchase MEH.. You axcepted a job with MEH and your gonna bash AAI's TA.. Dude, listen to yourself. You don't have a clue... I hate to tell you this... But the cookie got eaten..

it's pretty simple

a low key, low stress training event versus old school AAI screaming and yelling from gramps

guaranteed MKE base versus a possible ATL commute (as MKE domicile is no guarantee in the merger)

sure the pay rates are better, but realistically would we be under the new < 100 seat rates? probably, flying AAI's new 190's. how do those rates compare?

and frankly I like the small airline atmosphere and the customers who love us (cookie digestion i guess).

low domestic yield is biting ALL domestic airlines. AMR is seeing it, you are seeing it, SWA is seeing it, as are we.

i left AMR to get away from that management style. no love to fall right back into it with AAI.

 

[CitationLover]

I don't understand the infatuation of management with 70-90 seaters. Gate space is at a premium at so many airports. Couple this with the bogged down ATC system - I forsee a lot more airports moving to impose slot restrictions and a min number of seats. The 737 is definitely the way to go - maybe even something with more seats.

whose going to bight the bullet and adjust their route structure first? AA/AE in LGA/ORD? United/SKYW/CHQ in ORD? Delta/ASA/Comair in ATL/JFK? not enough 737's around to describe what you want.

 

[SkiFishFly]

whose going to bight the bullet and adjust their route structure first? AA/AE in LGA/ORD? United/SKYW/CHQ in ORD? Delta/ASA/Comair in ATL/JFK? not enough 737's around to describe what you want.

I think the Gov is going to impose it. Sort of a scaled down re-regulation. The enviro wackos coupled with the atc problems are going to push it.
Picture how LGA and ATL would look if you cut out the RJs. Prob 30 percent fewer departures all with 120 or more seats. Free up a lot of ramp/taxi and gate space. Cut down on wait times/lines and wasted jet fuel.
Just hope I'm working where the company has the foresight to be ready for it. Right now it looks like AAI management has a severe case of shiny RJ pay rate syndrome...

 

[CitationLover]

Picture how LGA and ATL would look if you cut out the RJs. Prob 30 percent fewer departures all with 120 or more seats. Free up a lot of ramp/taxi and gate space. Cut down on wait times/lines and wasted jet fuel.

so I take it the 717's (60% of AAI fleet) are on your target of elimination by the govt.?!?!

 

[gt1900]

Skyfish is 100% right....If you look at the projected pax increase in the next 10 years and then look at how our ATC system is already tapped out you are going to see airports place minimum seat restrictions on airplanes.. They won't have a choice......
Citation.. Since you don't work at AAI I would be careful what you say.. You have no idea what the training environment is like.. My 717 training was very laid back and there was no yelling.. Actually, it was too laid back for me. I wish my instructor was harder on us.. The only people who have problems and get yelled at are the people who don't study and don't prepare.. Yes, if you don't come prepared for training AAI will not hold your hand like many other airlines will.. They will kick you to the door, but, if you study, it will be a piece of cake.......
As for the shiny RJ syndrome.. I wouldn't be too worried about it. KG may want RJ's, but he doesn't run the company. Leonard has stated that if he were running the company when the 717's were ordered, AAI would be an all 737 fleet right now. I listen to what Leonard and Fornaro have to say. Not KG and SK.... I'm not saying AAI won't get big RJ's, but I believe they see that 5-10 years down the road, even the E-190's wont be nearly as profitable as the bigger 737's... HMMM I wonder if thats why they wanted to get rid of the 13% override on the large narrow body pay scale??? Your more likely to see 737-800's on line than you are 190's.... However, with all that said, if they do get that chity 100 seat pay to pass you would be more likely to see 190's on property.. But I still don't think your gonna see the next big order from AAI be 190's..

 

[CitationLover]

Citation.. Since you don't work at AAI I would be careful what you say.. You have no idea what the training environment is like.. My 717 training was very laid back and there was no yelling.. Actually, it was too laid back for me. I wish my instructor was harder on us.. The only people who have problems and get yelled at are the people who don't study and don't prepare.. Yes, if you don't come prepared for training AAI will not hold your hand like many other airlines will.. They will kick you to the door, but, if you study, it will be a piece of cake.......

I am just repeating what I've heard from people who work there. If it is very laid back, why the concern for the "no recommendation is a failure" part of the TA? I have also heard from many that it is old school in the aspect of knowing the rivets, etc.

If I am wrong, then great!

 

[gt1900]

I have no idea how many rivets are on the airplane... Hell, I think it has 2 engines.. BR 7 somethings..... It isn't laid back in the sense that they are gonna hold your hand until you pass. Because they won't do that.. However, if you study, its no problem.... Besides, the "no recommendation is a failure" is what is currently practiced anyways from what I understand..

 

[Ty Webb]

Yes, very interesting timing... I wonder why they did that? .

Probably to start "letting down easy" any analysts and investors who actually believed the ridiculously optimistic numbers that they were projecting during their "big lie" campaign.

Their projections were so optimistic, I thought Rico wrote 'em :laugh: .


.

 

[crashpad]

The "big lie" is over. Milwaukee newspapers and channels were reporting last week that the AirTran deal is all but done. The Midwest Express pilots I've spoke with are pretty bitter about it. I guess they don't realize how lucky they are.

 

[PCL_128]

The Midwest Express pilots I've spoke with are pretty bitter about it. I guess they don't realize how lucky they are.

I just don't get that. Their company gets much bigger, they'll have the ability to bid to the 737, and they'll probably get a pretty good deal on the seniority integration since they're so senior compared to the AirTran pilot group. If they're worried that MKE will be flooded with AirTran guys, then I don't think they'll need to worry. I don't think there'll be a lot of guys bidding MKE.

 

[Ty Webb]

The Midwest guys would probably be a lot happier if they knew that the AirTran pilot group is not what they might be worrying about. . . . . most guys here have been through multiple airlines, and have been through the merger/furlough/growth/stagnation cycle. . . . Most are a pretty easy-going guys who are not looking to reap some windfall from this thing.

I haven't heard one AAI pilot use the word "Staple", I think most just expect that there will be a "relative seniority" integration, and some fences for a few years around domiciles and equipment to keep some semblance of normalcy for everyone.

We could benefit from having the collective experience of the MEH group, just like they can benefit from our history of growth and expansion. We need to work together to leverage management, not be tools to be used against one another. In the end, we'll be one group, so let's work together to our mutual benefit.


.

 

[USARET]

I haven't heard one AAI pilot use the word "Staple",

Staple.....just kidding!

 

[Lear70]

Besides, the "no recommendation is a failure" is what is currently practiced anyways from what I understand..

It's not practiced in the same way the T.A. is written from a language/interpretation standpoint.

Currently, if you don't get recommended, you are returned to the line without further training, as you haven't actually "failed" anything. No pink slip on your FAA record, and your PRIA record simply indicates you withdrew from upgrade and you spend a year in your old position before you get to try again.

You could *consider* that a "failure", the company does simply for the purposes of determining when you could come back for another upgrade/transition attempt, but the difference is there is no "termination risk" from multiple "failure to recommend" events, and a guy who just couldn't hack the upgrade would be a permanent F/O, but never at risk to be terminated for it.

The new T.A. puts those F/O's now at risk for termination. Granted, you're talking about probably 1-2% of the pilot group (10-20 guys), but I'm not interested in throwing ANYONE under the bus like that. Absolutely ZERO need for that to be added to the contract.

Incidentally, I didn't find the schoolhouse to be terribly bad or absolutely "the best". The curriculum needs tweaking, but the CBT is good, the VPT sessions are EXCELLENT for developing flows and reinforcing systems understanding, and the instructors were all very knowledgeable and VERY willing to help if you had a good attitude and asked for the help.

There WAS an undercurrent of "you'd better be at your best or you're out of here", but I think a lot of that was self-imposed by guys who freak during training anyway. Is it stressful? Sure; your career is on the line. Do they make it worse? Not really, and certainly not intentionally in any kind of "intimidation" exercise. It's just old school "Learn it our way or hit the road." If you can handle that with a good attitude, you'll be just fine, and might even enjoy it.

 

[CitationLover]

I just don't get that. Their company gets much bigger, they'll have the ability to bid to the 737, and they'll probably get a pretty good deal on the seniority integration since they're so senior compared to the AirTran pilot group. If they're worried that MKE will be flooded with AirTran guys, then I don't think they'll need to worry. I don't think there'll be a lot of guys bidding MKE.

there is no guarantee MKE will be a domicile in the future versus 100% with the status quo, that is one thing. your company has stated rj's for MKE, BOS, and MCI which further feeds this paranoia of having to goto ATL for work.

there is also the integration issue, no one likes uncertainty.

a lot people simply like it being a small company and knowing everyone. they take great pride in the product they deliver and fear change.

whats the big deal about bidding a 737? we will have them or A320's here to replace the MD80.

 

[CitationLover]

We need to work together to leverage management, not be tools to be used against one another. In the end, we'll be one group, so let's work together to our mutual benefit.

100% agreement.