Midwest Air Warns On Profit, Cites Weak Fares

[Lear70]

No worries... was at the road show today, and only the NC Chair still thinks this thing is a good deal. Everyone else was like, "Yeah, we know that sucks. Yeah, we know the insurance section sucks worst of all. Yeah, that's a concession."

There's the "beginnings" of some good ideas, just not worth all the give-backs, and yes, it will probably tank pretty hard. Word is it'll be out for vote in the next 7-10 days with a pretty short voting timeline, but that's just "the word on the street".

What was that Chinese blessing/curse? "May you live in *interesting* times."

 

[gt1900]

Citation... It may not have ramped up yet but when MEH is missing thier own earnings estimates that don't even take into account the things your talking about, its no wonder the shareholders voted the way they did.... 2 quarters in a row MEH has missed their estimates, how long are shareholders supposed to wait until Timmey can realize hes ridding a sinking ship?? BTW...Its funny you are calling AAI's TA a "crappy" TA... You better hope AAI buys MEH.. Even with the "crappy" TA MEH's 15 year capt pay would increase by around $37 per hour... AAI's current contract is much, much better than MEH's contract.... Hell, you should be happy as a MEH new hire that AAI's is probably gonna purchase MEH.. You axcepted a job with MEH and your gonna bash AAI's TA.. Dude, listen to yourself. You don't have a clue... I hate to tell you this... But the cookie got eaten..

 

[likeitis]

Citation... It may not have ramped up yet but when MEH is missing thier own earnings estimates that don't even take into account the things your talking about, its no wonder the shareholders voted the way they did.... 2 quarters in a row MEH has missed their estimates, how long are shareholders supposed to wait until Timmey can realize hes ridding a sinking ship?? BTW...Its funny you are calling AAI's TA a "crappy" TA... You better hope AAI buys MEH.. Even with the "crappy" TA MEH's 15 year capt pay would increase by around $37 per hour... AAI's current contract is much, much better than MEH's contract.... Hell, you should be happy as a MEH new hire that AAI's is probably gonna purchase MEH.. You axcepted a job with MEH and your gonna bash AAI's TA.. Dude, listen to yourself. You don't have a clue... I hate to tell you this... But the cookie got eaten..

I wouldn't say much much better. A couple sections of your contract are better but for the most part they are equal. Our training and scheduling are better along with the fact that our language is tighter.

 

[Lear70]

I wouldn't say much much better. A couple sections of your contract are better but for the most part they are equal. Our training and scheduling are better along with the fact that our language is tighter.

From what I understand of the MEH contract, this statement is correct.

The worst thing that would happen to us under an "imposed" Midwest contract (which is a ludicrous threat, but I digress), is that we take a $1 to $5 an hour pay cut. The rest of their contract is fairly comparable plus or minus a few things here and there.

Scope is the biggest concern, as obviously JL and BF want 70- to 90- seaters, and I haven't read the MEH language personally yet.

 

[SkiFishFly]

From what I understand of the MEH contract, this statement is correct.

The worst thing that would happen to us under an "imposed" Midwest contract (which is a ludicrous threat, but I digress), is that we take a $1 to $5 an hour pay cut. The rest of their contract is fairly comparable plus or minus a few things here and there.

Scope is the biggest concern, as obviously JL and BF want 70- to 90- seaters, and I haven't read the MEH language personally yet.

I don't understand the infatuation of management with 70-90 seaters. Gate space is at a premium at so many airports. Couple this with the bogged down ATC system - I forsee a lot more airports moving to impose slot restrictions and a min number of seats. The 737 is definitely the way to go - maybe even something with more seats.

 

[CitationLover]

Citation... It may not have ramped up yet but when MEH is missing thier own earnings estimates that don't even take into account the things your talking about, its no wonder the shareholders voted the way they did.... 2 quarters in a row MEH has missed their estimates, how long are shareholders supposed to wait until Timmey can realize hes ridding a sinking ship?? BTW...Its funny you are calling AAI's TA a "crappy" TA... You better hope AAI buys MEH.. Even with the "crappy" TA MEH's 15 year capt pay would increase by around $37 per hour... AAI's current contract is much, much better than MEH's contract.... Hell, you should be happy as a MEH new hire that AAI's is probably gonna purchase MEH.. You axcepted a job with MEH and your gonna bash AAI's TA.. Dude, listen to yourself. You don't have a clue... I hate to tell you this... But the cookie got eaten..

it's pretty simple

a low key, low stress training event versus old school AAI screaming and yelling from gramps

guaranteed MKE base versus a possible ATL commute (as MKE domicile is no guarantee in the merger)

sure the pay rates are better, but realistically would we be under the new < 100 seat rates? probably, flying AAI's new 190's. how do those rates compare?

and frankly I like the small airline atmosphere and the customers who love us (cookie digestion i guess).

low domestic yield is biting ALL domestic airlines. AMR is seeing it, you are seeing it, SWA is seeing it, as are we.

i left AMR to get away from that management style. no love to fall right back into it with AAI.

 

[CitationLover]

I don't understand the infatuation of management with 70-90 seaters. Gate space is at a premium at so many airports. Couple this with the bogged down ATC system - I forsee a lot more airports moving to impose slot restrictions and a min number of seats. The 737 is definitely the way to go - maybe even something with more seats.

whose going to bight the bullet and adjust their route structure first? AA/AE in LGA/ORD? United/SKYW/CHQ in ORD? Delta/ASA/Comair in ATL/JFK? not enough 737's around to describe what you want.

 

[SkiFishFly]

whose going to bight the bullet and adjust their route structure first? AA/AE in LGA/ORD? United/SKYW/CHQ in ORD? Delta/ASA/Comair in ATL/JFK? not enough 737's around to describe what you want.

I think the Gov is going to impose it. Sort of a scaled down re-regulation. The enviro wackos coupled with the atc problems are going to push it.
Picture how LGA and ATL would look if you cut out the RJs. Prob 30 percent fewer departures all with 120 or more seats. Free up a lot of ramp/taxi and gate space. Cut down on wait times/lines and wasted jet fuel.
Just hope I'm working where the company has the foresight to be ready for it. Right now it looks like AAI management has a severe case of shiny RJ pay rate syndrome...

 

[CitationLover]

Picture how LGA and ATL would look if you cut out the RJs. Prob 30 percent fewer departures all with 120 or more seats. Free up a lot of ramp/taxi and gate space. Cut down on wait times/lines and wasted jet fuel.

so I take it the 717's (60% of AAI fleet) are on your target of elimination by the govt.?!?!

 

[gt1900]

Skyfish is 100% right....If you look at the projected pax increase in the next 10 years and then look at how our ATC system is already tapped out you are going to see airports place minimum seat restrictions on airplanes.. They won't have a choice......
Citation.. Since you don't work at AAI I would be careful what you say.. You have no idea what the training environment is like.. My 717 training was very laid back and there was no yelling.. Actually, it was too laid back for me. I wish my instructor was harder on us.. The only people who have problems and get yelled at are the people who don't study and don't prepare.. Yes, if you don't come prepared for training AAI will not hold your hand like many other airlines will.. They will kick you to the door, but, if you study, it will be a piece of cake.......
As for the shiny RJ syndrome.. I wouldn't be too worried about it. KG may want RJ's, but he doesn't run the company. Leonard has stated that if he were running the company when the 717's were ordered, AAI would be an all 737 fleet right now. I listen to what Leonard and Fornaro have to say. Not KG and SK.... I'm not saying AAI won't get big RJ's, but I believe they see that 5-10 years down the road, even the E-190's wont be nearly as profitable as the bigger 737's... HMMM I wonder if thats why they wanted to get rid of the 13% override on the large narrow body pay scale??? Your more likely to see 737-800's on line than you are 190's.... However, with all that said, if they do get that chity 100 seat pay to pass you would be more likely to see 190's on property.. But I still don't think your gonna see the next big order from AAI be 190's..