Microsoft FlightSim/Accessories

[Papa Smurf]

I am thinking of purchasing the latest version of Microsoft FlightSim. Any recommendations as to the best quality accessories to add in terms of yoke, rudder pedals, multiengine throttle quadrant, external graphics/WX/ATC, etc?

My sole intent is to keep the instrument skills sharp. I have free access to a Frasca 141 FTD at work, but unless I grab a fellow instructor to act as ATC, it's not much of a challenge. Thanks in advance for any input!

 

[User546]

This was discussed within the previous 3 months on here, so you might want to search for that post. There was a lot of good information that you are lookin for in there.

I had a guy give me a CH Products USB yoke one time, and I always enjoyed using it in FS2004. It had a very realistic feel to it (you might have to tweak your program settings a bit to achieve that) and whether it was flying a Lear, King Air, or a Cessna 172 it behaved and handled just like the real thing. Everywhere I've seen thats the brand that people recommend, and they are built rugid and sturdy. The yoke has functionality of: Trim wheel (elevator and rudder), gear handle, flap handle, prop lever, throttle lever, mixture lever, couple push buttons you can customize to your liking (set up autopilot disconnect, braking, clear out panel, change screen, etc.).

I'd warn you off of buying the additional rudder pedals. There as expensive as the yoke, and they are for the most part useless. FS2004 has an option for "auto-rudder" and it removes the need for it. Even if you dont use that function, the airplanes don't fly that much different without.

More information on the product can be found here:
http://www.chproducts.com/retail/y_fsyusb.html

Here's Amazon's link to the product - will run you about $105:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000056SPM/103-0267326-6030275?v=glance&n=172282

And just heads up, Microsoft is releasing a new version of their simulator, Flight Simulator X, around "the 2006 holiday season". I probably wouldn't hold out that long for it, but just thought I'd throw that in here.

If you've never used FS2004 before, it's an awesome IFR platform for keeping current and up to speed with instrument procedures in all kinds of custom weather - at practically no cost.
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[Papa Smurf]

Thanks User997. Good point about the rudder pedals. I think I'll skip those.

 

[RJones]

I'd warn you off of buying the additional rudder pedals. There as expensive as the yoke, and they are for the most part useless. FS2004 has an option for "auto-rudder" and it removes the need for it. Even if you dont use that function, the airplanes don't fly that much different without.

The "auto-rudder" function is great for just flying, shooting approaches, etc., however, to do V1 cuts you must turn that function off and that's where the rudder pedals would come in handy.

RJ

 

[rfresh]

If your intent is to keep your instrument skills sharp, I don't see any need for a yoke or any other type of airplane control. Ok, it might be nice to have one but I'd buy the cheapest one.

It's not the physical flying that counts when trying to keep your IFR skills sharp - it's the thinking part - aka, using your brain. So use the autopilot and fly that way.

I worked in flight crew training for a major airline so I had access to the latest and greatest full flight simulators. The level D ones. When I could grab some time in one for myself (not instructing students in them) I wouldn't do much hand flying except to get it off the ground. Then the autopilot would come on and from there on out, it was thinking and flying IFR via the autopilot.

When I would bring friends into the full flight sims, they all of course wanted to hand fly the sim just to see if they could and if they could actually land it. About half could not land it BTW. And they were soooo good at flying MS Flight Simulator too. I always maintained MS FS is just for entertainment purposes and has no bearing on whether someone could actually fly a real plane.

So, don't waste your money buying expensive yokes and rudders and throttles etc and think you can fly a plane just because you can land MS FS. However, that being said, if you *want* to buy all that gear just for fun and for entertainment then by all means be my guest.

The instrument rated private pilots I would bring in, once they 'proved' they could hand fly the full flight sim (like the B-737-700), the AP went on and from there on out, it was flying IFR via the autopilot and using our IFR brains.

 

[A Squared]

If your intent is to keep your instrument skills sharp, I don't see any need for a yoke or any other type of airplane control. Ok, it might be nice to have one but I'd buy the cheapest one.

It's not the physical flying that counts when trying to keep your IFR skills sharp - it's the thinking part - aka, using your brain. So use the autopilot and fly that way.

I worked in flight crew training for a major airline so I had access to the latest and greatest full flight simulators. The level D ones. When I could grab some time in one for myself (not instructing students in them) I wouldn't do much hand flying except to get it off the ground. Then the autopilot would come on and from there on out, it was thinking and flying IFR via the autopilot.

well, that's an interesting perspective, but with that in mind, it may come as a surprise to you that there are airplanes out there which do not have autopilots (I fly one every day) and all the "thinking IFR" in the world won't do you a bit of good if your instrument scan is crap and you can't hold altitude and heading while hand flying and doing some other things at the same time. MS flightsim isn't the be- all and end all for this, but it's a good cheap way to get a start on it.

So, don't waste your money buying expensive yokes and rudders and throttles etc and think you can fly a plane just because you can land MS FS. However, that being said, if you *want* to buy all that gear just for fun and for entertainment then by all means be my guest.

Actually, the controls *do* make a substantial difference. I agree that rudders arre probably a waste, but I recently was helping a friend prep for an interview sim check, and he had MS flightsim and some cheapo joystick controller. Well, it was d@mn near impossible to control the plane using that joystick. Compare that to the CH products yoke I own and there's a world of difference. True, flying with the CH products yoke doesn't make it into a real airplane, but it *does* change it from something which is absurdly unlike flying any real plane, to something which resembles flying a real plane enough to at least be useful from a currency standpoint. Having a decent quality yoke *does* make a diffeence. I think the CH products one is about $120 , and if you're trying to get some benefit out of flight sim, (rahter than a video game purely for amusement) it's worth it.

 

[NYCPilot]

I'm gonna have to disagree a little about using the AP in lieu of handflying via a yoke. First off, the yoke isnt too expensive for what you get out of it.

Although I don't have the MSFS2004, I use On Top 8.0 from ASA to keep my IFR skills in tune. True enough, using the AP alone and flying it can be helpful, I think you get much more out of it by hand flying it. Hand flying takes up additional brain power and makes calculations, reviewing the charts and planning out the flight much more challenging. Trying to maintain altitude, make standard rate turns at specific bank angles and airspeeds while reading the plate and performing constant rate descents on the VSI all by hand sharpens your skills that much more. Handflying the missed and figuring out your entries and wind corrections too, can be a handful without the AP and by doing so, will make flying via the AP much easier and keep you ahead. As dorky as it sounds I even try to keep the speed quite fast all throughout the approach and missed to get me thinking quicker, even though I fly things almost half as slow.

Maybe using the AP in cruise mode while making short trips from airport to airport can be helpful, but the whole point of having the simulator is to practice hand flying the approaches.

The rudders arent gonna help much unless you want to practice those engine-outs, so its not worth it otherwise.

 

[rfresh]

@NYCPILOT

I think you make a good point...

 

[falcon20driver]

Goofiest thing I ever read, that you need a yoke to fly instruments, christ o mighty. Makes no difference, you trim the plane up, scan the instruments and make appropriate corrections using the stick or yoke. I have to fly with a yoke in real life, but I prefer a stick, have gobs of Cub time and a stick is a lot easier to fly with to me.

I think the problem was a bad or worn out stick, not sticks in general.

I practice instrument flying with MSFS and a cheap joystick and it works fine.
Tell me all of the fighter pilots couldn't fly gauges without a yoke.

 

[A Squared]

Goofiest thing I ever read, that you need a yoke to fly instruments, christ o mighty. Makes no difference, you trim the plane up, scan the instruments and make appropriate corrections using the stick or yoke. I have to fly with a yoke in real life, but I prefer a stick, have gobs of Cub time and a stick is a lot easier to fly with to me.

Tell me all of the fighter pilots couldn't fly gauges without a yoke.

Uhhhh, no, that is *not* what I said. Obviously it is perfectly possible to fly instruments with a stick. What I said is that a good quality yoke is much better to use than a poor quality joystick. By poor quality, I mean one that is jerky and does not sent inputs to the computer which are proportional to the stick movements, one which is overly sensitive, or one that is not sensitive enough, one with dead spots, etc. Along those same lines, a good quality stick would be vastly superior to a poor quality yoke with the aforementioned defects. Nobody (except you) said anything about yoke vs stick.

What's goofy is your reading comprehension

 

[falcon20driver]

I edited my post, I think your problem was a worn out stick, not sticks in general.

I've been using MSFS for intrument practice for years with cheap analog sticks they work fine, I think spending 120. on a yoke is goofy when a 20. stick works just as well.

 

[A Squared]

I edited my post, I think your problem was a worn out stick, not sticks in general.

Yeah, I don't know whether it was worn out or just crappy to begin with, but I do know it was almost impossible to control the Flight Sim with it. That's not the only contreoller I've used which was a pain to use. And no, it wasn't that it was a stick. I have plenty of time in airplanes with sticks, in fact I own one, and prefer that. I don't knw where you came up with that.

I've been using MSFS for intrument practice for years with cheap analog sticks they work fine, I think spending 120. on a yoke is goofy when a 20. stick works just as well.

Hey, If you've got a less expensive option that works well, more power to you. I got mine on a reccomendation from somone who's really into simming, and it's worked for me. For me it was worth the extra money to avoid getting something which didn't work for me and returning it and trying a different one. Your results may vary.

 

[mtrv]

Actually, the controls *do* make a substantial difference. I agree that rudders arre probably a waste,

No one fly's aerobatics around here?

There are a few aftermarket aircraft available for FS2004, that do quite an incrediable job of aerobatic manuvers. Can't imagine using these, without pedals.

 

[U of I Tweak]

No one fly's aerobatics around here?

There are a few aftermarket aircraft available for FS2004, that do quite an incrediable job of aerobatic manuvers. Can't imagine using these, without pedals.

I use a stick that twists about the vertical axis for rudder control. Works great.