Michael Moore Comments on Regional Pay at Labor Rally

[Max Q]

We are all fools. The joke is on us.

 

[damnflyboy]

We are all fools. The joke is on us.

Yup. Simple and sweet. Now that's what I'm talking about.

 

[cynic]

That is the funny part. Airline pilots (typically white, male and conservative) need a union to get a decent wage!

 

[ex j-41]

Unfortunately in management's eyes (as well as the shareholders') you have to add the pilot salaries together. To them, the FO is an apprentice, training to become a captain in an aircraft that really only needs 1 pilot to fly.

FAA still requires 2 pilots.
I will not fly on an airplane that does not have 2 people up there. Look at Colgan. They could have used a third.
They need us so make um pay.

 

[Raoul Duke]

looking at the first year pay for any profession is completely pointless. Suck it up, pay your dues and it all works out in the end.

 

[Poahi]

You can't rape the willing....

 

[pipejockey]

looking at the first year pay for any profession is completely pointless. Suck it up, pay your dues and it all works out in the end.

Really? Pay your dues? If it were 1 year then sure! But every friggin time you are forced to start as a new hire at another airline? Gimme a break!

 

[damnflyboy]

You can't rape the willing....

Oh, college. Fond memories. Wait, you said willing?

 

[Jar Jar]

looking at the first year pay for any profession is completely pointless. Suck it up, pay your dues and it all works out in the end.

Funny my w-2's for the last 8 years are all sub 35k and that's pretty typical among my peers. Age 65 played a large part in that.

But, the guys who were working in the 70s, 80s, and 90s didn't make enough money yet, so I have to wait for them to make a little bit more. Guess I have no right to bitch.

 

[cynic]

Guess I have no right to bitch.

You have no right to bitch because you took a low paying job. You ARE the problem. RIGHT this second... you are why the pay is so low.

Now if flying airplanes were hard (like building scientific applications on a super computer... that's what I do ) then you would be making a whole lot more money. But it's not and anything with the intellectual capacity of say... an advanced chimp can get through the training so there you are.

 

[pilotyip]

looking at the first year pay for any profession is completely pointless. Suck it up, pay your dues and it all works out in the end.

Hey this is FI stop dealing in reality. It will take you approximately 10 years to get to a job that will allow you to start making QOL and pay a goal in your job search. Pilots get hired at good places because they have Turbine PIC, you must build turbine PIC to have control over your career. You have to go wherever that job is that gets you turbine PIC. You stay in that job until you can get another job that gives you better turbine PIC, i.e. Bigger airplanes, Turbojet, 121, etc. It is called paying your dues everyone must do it. Some do it in the military, some do it at the regionals, and some do in the on-demand business. Everyone pays his or her dues. BTW If Moore is so concerned about regional wages, he is a gazillionaire, have him start an airline that pays $50K for first year F/O's. He is smarter than that, he doesn't want to make a small fortune of his large fortune.

 

[TEXAN AVIATOR]

Cue the Michael Moore Hate Brigade in 3, 2,....

Here I am, yes he's a tool!

 

[A-V-8]

I would still prefer not to have Michael Moore as a spokesman for me.

 

[Flyprdu]

You have no right to bitch because you took a low paying job. You ARE the problem. RIGHT this second... you are why the pay is so low.

This makes me want to vomit every time I see it. Look, there is a social obligation that today's companies, and yourself included, do not acknowledge. Companies have an obligation to keep wages commensurate with the existing quality of life and cost of living in order to sustain and promote their own consumer base. By stripping their own employees of decent wages and benefits... they've eroded their own bottom lines. Short term gain. Long term disaster.

So, your solution is to avoid working completely in the hopes that somehow, some way, a shortage will appear and magically drive up wages? Well, the financial bungling by the wealthy elites took care of that by stagnating the economy; an employment shortage is the furthest thing from reality. Meanwhile, they use the crisis as a further excuse to drive wages down.

We are in the death throws of a plutocratic revolution. And they have the low-intelligent people convinced to look into the mirror, point, and say "You're the problem!"
_________________________________________

A union worker, a member of the Tea Party, and a CEO are sitting at a table. In the middle of the table there is a plate with a dozen cookies on it. The CEO reaches across the table, takes 11 cookies, looks at the Tea Bagger and says: "Look out for that union guy, he wants a piece of your cookie."

 

[cynic]

This makes me want to vomit every time I see it. Look, there is a social obligation that today's companies, and yourself included, do not acknowledge. Companies have an obligation to keep wages commensurate with the existing quality of life and cost of living in order to sustain and promote their own consumer base. By stripping their own employees of decent wages and benefits... they've eroded their own bottom lines. Short term gain. Long term disaster.

So, your solution is to avoid working completely in the hopes that somehow, some way, a shortage will appear and magically drive up wages? Well, the financial bungling by the wealthy elites took care of that by stagnating the economy; an employment shortage is the furthest thing from reality. Meanwhile, they use the crisis as a further excuse to drive wages down.

We are in the death throws of a plutocratic revolution. And they have the low-intelligent people convinced to look into the mirror, point, and say "You're the problem!"
_________________________________________

A union worker, a member of the Tea Party, and a CEO are sitting at a table. In the middle of the table there is a plate with a dozen cookies on it. The CEO reaches across the table, takes 11 cookies, looks at the Tea Bagger and says: "Look out for that union guy, he wants a piece of your cookie."

You sir are.... correct. If we had strong unions then pilot pay would be higher. And indeed the erosion of union power has caused a drastic reduction in wages for the middle class.

Supporting documentation - http://www.slate.com/id/2266025/entry/2266031/

 

[aircombat]

I would still prefer not to have Michael Moore as a spokesman for me.

+1. I can't believe that he can make a statement. Then make another statement proving his first statement false. Then point out that he knows that he proved himself incorrect but you should still believe the first statement.

Example. "The government tells you that you can become wealthy no matter your background. They tell you stories how a boy from a single parent family can become president (true). They tell you how a man with only a high school education becomes a successful documentary producer (true). But don't fall for that because you can't do that. (false)" Who falls for that? Only Moore could prove himself wrong and then still have followers. He is lucky that our nation doesn't invest in education.

 

[pilotyip]

You sir are.... correct. If we had strong unions then pilot pay would be higher. And indeed the erosion of union power has caused a drastic reduction in wages for the middle class.

Supporting documentation - http://www.slate.com/id/2266025/entry/2266031/

I think pilots lose sight of the economic impact of their action on the end user of the product. Been there done that, unions are limited in what they can deliver. One thing they can not deliver is job security. I was ALPA at TransAmerican (L-188/DC-8), 1978-79, owner decided he could make more money selling airplanes than flying them, going backward in seniority, airline ended up in 1982 with C-130's in Angola Africa and New Guina. Folded in 1984, I bailed to the corp world in 1979. Hand writing was on the wall and there was nothing a union could do to protect my job. Zantop Teamsters (L-188) in 1996, union got in by one vote, first pay raise on contract due 3-26-1997, owner shut the company down on 3-25-1997. Jimmy Zantop figured why risk my $35M, Nothing a union could do to protect my job. What about when unions price themselves out of the market, and non-union companies such Toyota, JetBlue, etc step in and offer the consumers a similar product at a lower price.

 

[aircombat]

I think pilots lose sight of the economic impact of their action on the end user of the product. Been there done that, unions are limited in what they can deliver. One thing they can not deliver is job security. I was ALPA at TransAmerican (L-188/DC-8), 1978-79, owner decided he could make more money selling airplanes than flying them, going backward in seniority, airline ended up in 1982 with C-130's in Angola Africa and New Guina. Folded in 1984, I bailed to the corp world in 1979. Hand writing was on the wall and there was nothing a union could do to protect my job. Zantop Teamsters (L-188) in 1996, union got in by one vote, first pay raise on contract due 3-26-1997, owner shut the company down on 3-25-1997. Jimmy Zantop figured why risk my $35M, Nothing a union could do to protect my job. What about when unions price themselves out of the market, and non-union companies such Toyota, JetBlue, etc step in and offer the consumers a similar product at a lower price.

exactly. Too bad we don't learn from people that have experience such as yourself.
Unions can work and did work but they have to follow guide lines like they had when they were created.
#1 All unions need to have standards that can't be broken. Otherwise you will have one unionized company fighting another unionized company for work. Defeats the whole point of a union.
#2 No work will be afforded to a non-union company. I know how they did this back in the day. It was illegal back then and illegal now but if it can't be done then having a union is pointless.

 

[damnflyboy]

I would still prefer not to have Michael Moore as a spokesman for me.

+1. And I would still prefer not to live in the union city known as Detroit. Worked out really well for them, didn't it?

 

[paid4training]

But more important that all this, the typical fo will HAVE to take the fat girl now because everyone knows what he's making!!!! Remember, everytime someone talks about low starting wages, somewhere an fo gets turned down or must reply "yes captain I will take the fat one"!!!